Author Topic: Daytop doesn't deserve to exist  (Read 18796 times)

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Offline Paul St. John

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« on: February 09, 2006, 07:16:00 PM »
Daytop facilities do not deserve to exist on this planet and it would be a benefit to all if they simply ceased.  their ideas and practices are falsely-based, and destructive, leading to the harming of innocent children, and their mere existence is in essence stolen from the people of a country to whom they claim to be of such immense benefit.

     You can only help a drug addicted individual.  You cannot help a "drug addiction epidemic".  In Daytop, the emphasis is on the good and well-being of the the clan, referred to as the "family"- not the individual.  A person who possesses somehing in Daytop, for example, that majority does not, will often be confronted with an idea such as, " Do you think it is fair that you have this or that and the family does not?"  In addition, any person or groups of persons feelings in the facility, always takes value over another person's thoughts or reality, leaving the individual always subject to the whim of the family, with no means of self-defense.  The group, also, is often used as leverage against the individual, by the counselors, to pressure the individual into a state of obedience, expressed in the Daytop motto, " Drug Addicts Yeild to Positive Peer Pressure".  While Daytop clearly favors the idea of the group over the the honorring and acknowledging of the actual individuals who make up the group, common sense dictates that you cannot help an individual through ideaology and techniques that attack and deny the individual at the source.

     In order for a person to grow and heal, the person must be given the opportunity to express one's self.  Daytop's mode of treatment is geared not towards fopisterrinf self-expression, but rather it's antipode, self-submission.  daytop faculty are not interested in a client's expression of self, and in fact, consider it superfluous.  humiliating tactics are used, instead, to a person's expression of self and bring the person to a state of submission and brokeness.  Futhermore, a person is literally not allowed to talk about their experience with drugs, or what drugs meant to them, unless it is expressed in negative terms.  In essense, that part of the person submits and is counted out of the equation.  Sexual expression is strongly forbidden and to even have a sexual feeilng or thought for another member of the "family" is punished, and often degradingly so, leading to such experiences being quickly self-denied os psychologically repressed by the client.  Expression leads to life, and submission leads to death- with or without drugs.  In this respect Daytop chooses death over life.

     The majority of the time, a person knows in their mind that giving into a drug is wrong.  It is a person's giving in to their emotions over their better judgemnet that leads that leads them to get trapped into an addiction.  Daytop's methods model the supremacy of emotions over reason.  Long groups are held all day encouraging endless, bottomless conversations about the client's feelings, giving no attention to the client's thoughts or ideas, which are considerred to be a part of the person's "image", worthy only of being "broken".  As further example, if a client does something out of character, considerred wrong by program standards, or wrong in general, such will be forgiven if it is deemed that the person was "having feelings".  having thoughts, on the other hand, is scorned, and often punishable until the thought is changed.  For a person to overcome an addiction, without taking a worse problem on, the mimd must be strengthened, and emotions controlled.  daytop's practices, in essence drown the mind within the emotions.

     The result of Daytop's practices are what one might expect them to be.  the majority of youths who enter Daytop happy, confident, and honest, leave miserable, confused, and dishonest.  Paranoia, self-doubt, and mindless obedience are rampant in the facility and pretty much run the program according to what it is, or to paraphrase a govt' child welfare org., referring to a Daytop off-shoot, " These kids were as mindless automations, pleasing their masters".

     So what keeps Daytop in business?  It is simple.  Government intervention.  Daytop takes in more then half of their money from gevernment sources and still to this day pleads for and more or less demands more.  This not only keeps Daytop in business, even if they had almost no client's at all, it also makes it nearly impossible for competent people and companies in their line of service to compete.  How do you out-advertise a company who has so much unearned money consistantly thrown into it's system.  It is possible, but nearly not so.  Enough to discourage and often defeat others.

    So you see, daytop, first steals business from the true proffessional, opportuinty for a for a better society for us all, and money from the tax-payer, in order to create it's existence.  They then steal the light in our children's eyes, the mechanics of their minds, and time of their life, in order to perpetuate and continue it's existence.  It just gos to show you that if your philosophy is that of a theif, everything you do will involve theivery and perhaps even your mere existence.  The theif that is Daytop, steals far more then nearly all other theives, throughout history, and therefore this planet would not only get by alright without Daytop, but benefit immensely by it's disappearance.


Paul St. John

( it's nothing personal.  it just is)
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Offline Anonymous

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2006, 08:15:00 PM »
Well stated dude.
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Offline Anonymous

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2006, 06:41:00 AM »
Dude what are you smoking? Stop talking about your personal experience 10 years ago.
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Offline Anonymous

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2006, 05:52:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-10 03:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Dude what are you smoking? Stop talking about your personal experience 10 years ago."
Suck a dick, nigger.
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Offline Anonymous

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Daytop Village Counselors
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2007, 11:34:33 AM »
Daytop Village is a dump.  The only people they help is the Alumni Association.  Give me a break.  Junkies 60 years old still talking about the days they were slamming drugs.  Their Counselors are Crackheads and just barely got a GED.  I saw one counselor named Roger Abrams selling cigerettes on Lenox Avenue.  Now if they have counselors that sell cigerettes, what kind of treatment do they teach the clients.  My God, the Director, of Far Rockaway used to be a prostitue!!!  All of their counselors have criminal records from stealing drugs off their job.  And forget confidentiality, if I know that much and have never been on drugs, medical confidentiality doesn't exist.  Because they hire incompetent counselors with no education that needs to get their own life together before they can help someone else.  Roger Abrams have been know to buy cigarettes from the clients, buy hot clothes from the clients and stolen telephones from the clients.  Now with counselors like that working for them, no wonder people don't get off drugs.
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Offline Ursus

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 11:53:57 AM »
Quote from: ""Paul St. John""
  • In Daytop, the emphasis is on the good and well-being of the the clan, referred to as the "family"- not the individual.
  • Daytop's mode of treatment is geared not towards fopisterrinf self-expression, but rather it's antipode, self-submission.
  • Daytop's methods model the supremacy of emotions over reason.


Classic cult profile.  Check out this article which appeared in the August 20, 2007 edition of Mother Jones.  Daytop is pictured in the graph, a couple of posts down from the article.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22874
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Offline odie

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2007, 08:51:47 AM »
Maia Szalavitz  is forever coming up with flawed information such as that chart. Then you have the conspiracy theorists here on Fornits that follow her as if she was the second coming. Joe Ricci was never associated with Daytop Village in NY. He was at Daytop in Connecticut which is an entirely different organization. http://www.aptfoundation.org/daytop.htm
He spent a short time there then ran off. If she actually did any research as opposed to still looking for the guy in the grassy knoll she might have a shred of credibility.
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die

Offline Ursus

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2007, 09:31:21 AM »
Quote from: ""odie""
Maia Szalavitz  is forever coming up with flawed information such as that chart. Then you have the conspiracy theorists here on Fornits that follow her as if she was the second coming. Joe Ricci was never associated with Daytop Village in NY. He was at Daytop in Connecticut which is an entirely different organization. http://www.aptfoundation.org/daytop.htm
He spent a short time there then ran off. If she actually did any research as opposed to still looking for the guy in the grassy knoll she might have a shred of credibility.


Well, thanks odie, for clarifying that and providing the link.  I did check out that website, as well as APT, and it seems like it's a primarily community-based therapy source... although the Daytop portion (treating adult addictions) is based on a Therapeutic Community model, which is not at all the same thing.  

Daytop - NY, from what I gather, is also based on a TC model.  I am curious as to why APT called their adult addiction treatment program "Daytop," surely there must be some link between the two Daytops at one point early on?  

Elan School, of which Ricci was a founder of course, is based on a TC model, and truly the place has essentially zero outside community interaction save that based primarily on PR concerns.
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Offline Deborah

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2007, 02:34:21 PM »
Quote from: ""odie""
Maia Szalavitz  is forever coming up with flawed information such as that chart. Then you have the conspiracy theorists here on Fornits that follow her as if she was the second coming.


Would you be willing to create your own chart that might be compared with Maia's? Are you implying that she's intentionally being deceptive? Might she be doing the best she can, and open to more accurate information?
Ken Stettler, program licensing director in Utah, told a parent that it all started with Provo Canyon.
All the info is out there, it's just a matter of researching and plugging each program (and the particulars) into a timeline.
Institutions for kids have always existed. If the search function was functioning I'd link you to a great article. The roots are religious of course. Modern programs are just the next iteration of CPS placing kids in religious programs to have the devil beaten out of them and have religion and white middle-class values crammed down their throats. Most current programs claim to be "therapeutic" rather than religious, don't use evidence-based techniques, but rather est/Lifespring techniques.

I'd be willing to create a timeline in the TTI forum which could be edited as people provided documented information. I think it could be useful. I've been doing this in bits and pieces for 6 years, but it's not in one place, rather, scattered throughout the forums.
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Ursus

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2007, 02:45:41 PM »
That sounds like a great idea, Deborah.  I think there are a great many people who would benefit from this.  There will always be some controversy about certain assignations, but... the more information people have, the better off they are.

I will say this about Maia's chart: given the scattered nature of so much of the information out there, it was a pretty damn good job considering, and has certainly helped more than a few people in seeing a picture of how this industry has evolved.  Had it been more detailed and more complete, it might have been too much for most people to digest, given the magazine format that it was submitted in...
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Offline hanzomon4

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 02:46:50 PM »
You can do a search of fornits in google like this
Quote
search term site:http://wwf.fornits.com
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Ursus

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2007, 02:52:55 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
You can do a search of fornits in google like this
Quote
search term site:http://wwf.fornits.com


Yup.  Frustrating, though, I haven't figured out how to split it up by forum (within fornits).  Sometimes your search term appears too many times, but you remember which forum it was in, so being able to narrow it down that way would help...
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Offline Deborah

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2007, 03:03:12 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
You can do a search of fornits in google like this
Quote
search term site:http://wwf.fornits.com


Nope. Doesn't always work. I was searching for the post I made some time ago dealing with the WrapAround services in Milwaukee. Didn't turn up in the google search. Many others did, but not mine.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2007, 08:23:59 PM »
Daytop  New York was copied directly from Synanon by Monsignor O'Brien-- Synanon is the original American therapeutic community (TC).  Any American TC has its roots in Synanon. Most see this as a sign of pride. In Europe, the phrase means something slightly different, but we aren't talking about Europe here.

You can read about it http://http://www.daytop.org/history.html-- there was a Synanon branch in Connecticut that O'Brien visited which "inspired" him.

So, whether or not Ricci attended in New York or Connecticut is immaterial:  any early TC is directly based on Synanon and all later ones are either directly or indirectly based on it.

The odds of a Connecticut TC around in the 1970's being uninfluenced by Synanon and coming up independently with the same name as a famous New York program based on that model, given a Synanon *branch* in Connecticut are about zero.  Especially given Ricci's development of the same language and same tactics.
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Offline Ursus

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Daytop doesn't deserve to exist
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2007, 09:55:30 PM »
Thanks for the link.  Was Monsignor O'Brien also involved in starting up Pheonix House?
 
Never knew this:  "Daytop stands for Drug Addicts Yielding to Persuasion."

Synanon had branches in both New York and Connecticut.  I don't have the dates at the top of my head at the moment.  I seem to recall reading of some preference or pleasure on the part of Chuck Dederich whilst staying at the facility in Conn.

I myself attending a therapeutic boarding school in the early 70's which was not Elan (Poland, Maine), but not too far from it.  Hyde School (Bath, Maine), started in 1966.  Heavily influenced by 12-Step philosophy (Joe Gauld did spend sometime at Hazelden, plus his wife was allegedly a life-long alcoholic), perhaps combined with what appears to be some military school modeling, plus attempts at creating a "TC-like community" that was quite conservative, politically (as compared to the left coast).  "Character education."  A lot of emphasis on confrontational group therapy sessions, "brother's keeper," etc. etc.

Considering how physically close Elan and Hyde were to one other, it is perhaps surprising how isolated we were from one another as far as news went.  I suspect that there was no dearth of ego involvement on the part of the two Joes, and that this had a great deal to do with it.

Know anything about the evolution of this place?
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