join our protest on Feb 25 - Florida Holocaust Museum

[Anonymous]

I am not trying to pick a fight, just stating what I believe.

I respect what believe as well and understand where you are coming from.

What would you suggest they put on the signs?

[GregFL]

Not my call what goes on the sign, and again I wish them the best.  

You too.

[Anonymous]

No one, no sign, no flier ever said there were dead bodies, or gas chambers.

Even in court filings in Bradbury's case you will see what happened at Straight on specific points compared to holocaust like activities.

No one said there were dead bodies, or gas chambers.

I am not picking a fight with you, nor do I wish to but I do believe many things that happened at Straight and they scale in which they took place are very much like a holocaust.

Over thousands of years there have been many holocausts, not just the one during WWII.

The Jewish holocuast is not the only time in history there has been a holocaust.

it's not just a jewish thing.

In any case, I respect you thoughts on the matter.

[GregFL]

Thanks, I respect yours as well...I just don't agree with them.


Again..it is the word "holocaust" that conjures up the imagery of dead bodies and gas chambers.  The people observing automatically get this imagery in their head, and then they see you standing there.  Then they compare what they know about Straight (if anything) to what you are saying, and then they decide on your credibility and make a determination on your message.

This whole process takes about 5 seconds.

And this is where I part company with the idea of the protest.  I think the message is overly emotional and lacks credibility.  However, I fully support the idea that these people should be removed from the Holocaust board.  It is hippocritical.

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-01-30 09:28 ]

[marcwordsmith]

Anonymous mentioned that the Jewish holocaust was not the only historical holocaust.

As a Jew, that statement made me a little queasy. It felt like a non sequitor. I KNOW the Jewish holocaust was not the only holocaust. There was the wholesale slaughter of the American Indians, the killing fields of Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, and more. But I don't understand the reason why Anonymous felt the need to make that statement. I'm not sure what the exact point was of that and as a Jew, I winced.

I also want to say, as a Jew, that I'm appalled to know not only that Mel and Betty Sembler are also Jewish, but that they publicize this fact. It's disgusting. They are disgusting people. There are disgusting people (and good people) in every ethnic group.

As for whether or not Straight, Inc. can be compared to a holocaust, the bottom line for me is that I don't know because I wasn't there. I have heard that it was far more physically brutal than the Seed and I'm sure that's true.

Once, when I told a friend a long time ago about the Seed, he deemed it (in an informal conversation) a "little holocaust"--meaning a kind of holocaust of the soul. There was something to that, I think. But the question with this upcoming protest is what will be communicated to the public (via the press) and what the impact will be. If this Richard Bradbury fellow has had success in the past, then more power to him, I suppose; I don't know. I do detest the Semblers and I do think that what goes on in programs like Straight and the Seed can be deemed "torture" in many intances, and I don't flinch from that.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry I offended you earlier by saying the Jewish holocaust was not the only holocaust in history.

I am not anti-Semitic, I was trying to make a point to the other poster that the terrible things the Nazi?s did were not limited acts to that time period WWII.

History has shown us humans are the most destructive force on this planet and have committed many other large scale heinous acts.

By the way, Richard Bradbury has never protested at any of the protests at the Holocaust Awards Banquets.

I know because I have protested each year these past two year and plan to protest this year as well.

However, we are considering some changes in our central theme.

[GregFL]

Well, If I could be so bold as to make a couple of suggestions, I would offer this.

1)  Dress nice..in fact, wear business suits.

2)  no yelling or cursing

3)  Limit the signs to the topic at hand...IE:  Sembler & Co, their past and their current involvement with the board.  Slogans like

Sembler...remove him

Board of Directors
Straight, Inc.
Mel Sembler
et al

Board of Directors
Holocaust Museam
Mel Sembler
et al

Holcaust Museam  Honors the victims of abuse
 
Straight Inc.     Charged with and settled cases of abuse

Betty Sembler to victims of abuse
"get over it"


Remove the hippocrites from the holocaust board.


Etc, etc.

ALWAYS understating your case.


That would just be my suggestion, and once again...Good luck with the protest!!!!

[Antigen]

Finally! Something to argue with you
about!  :em:  

On 2006-01-30 09:04:00, GregFL wrote:

You may believe this with all your heart, but your credibility is on the line, and I see a problem with trying to convince the general public you were in a "holocaust".

You haven't convinced me, and I have spent years researching what happened and was in The Seed.

I have too, as you know. But have you studied the German Holocaust? I mean, do you know more of the story than just the parts about the angry little man w/ the funny moustache, Anne Frank, the gas chambers and work camps and that you should be appauled by the whole thing; hold it sacrosanct and never dare discuss it except in reverent tones?

Do you have a good understanding of what drove that insanity, how it came about, what it looked like on the ground as it overtook the German national character and hearts and minds of the German people (and not a few Italians and American financiers, industrialists and politicritters into the mix)?

One of the most important things to understand about that catastrophe of politics and war is that the European Jews were not really the problem that the people behind the Fürher were trying to solve. I'm convinced that Hitler believed that and most of his followers. But then, they believed it for centuries before the Socialist Workers Party ever began to pick up steam.

That's why the party bosses cottoned so well to the 'cause'; because the people were already eager to lap it up, to compromise their own ethics, to carry out acts offensive to their own sense of reason, their religions and just basic human decency.

And there are stark similarities. Not ONLY is the very same powerful Dynasty still in the game (look into Bush Harriman Walker, Union Banking, here's somat: http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm ) but the only switch up in strategy that I can see is that they've changed their scapegoat to one more believable to Americans. The scapegoated class is now our own children, those of them who don't want to be just like us, and people who dare to deem themselves capable and qualified to make their own choices wrt drug use w/o permission from a reich approved practicioner.  

If you don't understand how a Holocaust comes about, it'll happen again. If you dare not mention these similarities, these mistakes, these outright frauds, that's the best way to ensure that it does happen again, and asap!

I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=AR5564&code=10247' target='_new'>* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *

[Antigen]

One more nifty quip for your bumper, protest sign or attractive coffee mug or t-shirt.

TOUGH LOVE is a HATE GROUP!

Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic

_________________
fka ~ Antigen
Drug war POW  
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Why I Live at the PO



[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-01-30 15:07 ]

[Anonymous]

wow - I am the anon poster of this topic.  I have been working lots and have not had an opportunity to check back...in fact, I even forgot I posted this till I was reminded.   I really appreciate all the thoughts and comments; they definately are food for thought.  

Greg - thanks for the thoughts on the signs.  I agree and I for one think that any signs comparing the striaghts to the holocaust should be discouraged.   Also, your comments on other more appropriate signage is well taken.

Although, I am by heritage jewish, my family became catholic long long ago, so I don't have the same understanding as a practicing jew on feelings of the holocaust.  To me it is the most horrible thing that happened in the 20th century, possible for the entire history of the world.  With that said, let me explain a bit how we got to this point.

About 4 years ago, a few friends of mine approached the ex director and staff of the holocaust museum and brought information to them regarding the crimes against children that certain members of the board and board of trustees were involved in.  At that time, a request was made to remove the persons involved from the board or board of trustees; the request was ignored.  The request was made numerous times, formally in writing and informally by phone calls.  

When the executive director had a sudden heart attack and died, the former president of straight foundation was appointed interim director, Bruce Epstein, a further slap in the face.  His involvement was well known too, as that information was provided.  Epstein is also a board of trustees member.

The protest will again take place, I will do my best to modify our approach somewhat.  I believe that it is hypocritical and does not honor the vicitims of the holocaust and the jewish people to have these folks on the Board.  I stand by that and will do all I can to have them removed.

[GregFL]

Sorry Ginger, you gonna have to pick another topic to disagree with me on because I know exactly what you are talking about.

My only issue here is credibility.  You can argue about the slow rise of terror in the camps, the slow turning of the people against the jews for no other reason than the government said so, the techniques of the hitler juegan...alll that stuff and make a valid comparison to some of the aspects of the holocaust. To do this, you need time, a willing listener, and an intellectual argument.

However, standing on a corner with a sign that says "the straight holocaust" doesn't work.  It merely makes the people getting the message think you are nutty.

Anon, good luck, and thanks for listening.  I wish you guys safety and an effective protest.

[GregFL]

BTW, Love the sign.

Tough love is a hate group.

agreed

[Anonymous]

Great idea for a sign from the prior poster, how about this one

How about "Straight Inc is a hate group"

[Antigen]

Damn it, Greg! You're no fun at all. Like playing w/ dead puppies.

I'm biting my nails over here about exactly your concern. Somebody posted in another thread something to the effect of Gee wiz, that's an awful lot of words for a picket sign.

Just one ray of hope here  ::hehehmm::

You can argue about the slow rise of terror in the camps, the slow turning of the people against the jews for no other reason than the government said so, the techniques of the hitler juegan...

Nope, didn't happen that way, t'was t'other way `round; in Germany, here, in Somalia and elsewhere. And I think this is a crucial aspect of the whole thing (but, of course, won't fit easily on even a very large banner [sigh]). Antisemitism was alive and well under the Holy Roman Empire. Before the Kremlin, Jews under the rule of the church were prohibited from owning land. So they were, essentially, forced to the middle-man trades; accounting, retail, the arts and education, &c.

In the mean time, the script sort of flipped so that these professional roles became more powerful and more important than farming. There was deep seated resentment already. The Nazi's just coopted it to their agenda.

And it's exactly the same story here. Americans have been slightly more frightened of the younger generation ever since the great waves of immigration brought them ferners into contact w/ our PURE, WASPie sons and daughters. (puns intended). Maybe even more deeply rooted than that is our Western Christian, Puritanical obsession over euphoric drugs.

The Nazis are, yet again, just coopting our native fears and anxieties and divisions. And they're the same goddamned people, folks! Just follow the money back to Prescott Büsh and AG Farben.

Mel Sembler is about as good a Jew as Virgil is a Christian. In fact, Betty professed under oath her affection and almost gushing admiration for Virgil. I don't know if he knows it or not. I don't care if he ever does. People have got to start seeing these monsters for what they are; snap out of it, reject their false authority and fucked up advice.

Quit paying and quit obeying the enemy.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
--Thomas Jefferson

[Anonymous]

Endora or Antigen. What ever name you are going by now. I think you have flipped your broom.