join our protest on Feb 25 - Florida Holocaust Museum

[Anonymous]

The assholes that particpated in abusing seedlings also were involved in straight....come on y'all, the protest will do your souls some good.  Feb 25, see a  map and more info on Wes's site.  http://www.thestraights.com

[Anonymous]

bumppppp

[GregFL]

You guys gonna hold up signs again calling it "The Straight Holocaust" in front of the Holocaust museum?

If so, I think you are hurting your crediblity in ways that can never be regained.

Sorry, but I cannot support something that makes critics of the teen help industry look like a bunch of kooks, in spite of your best intentions.

[marcwordsmith]

I completely agree with Greg.

[marcwordsmith]

And let's keep things in perspective. There are different DEGREES of adversity and suffering.

The Seed and Straight were nightmares. But they do not/did not compare to Nazi terror and the Holocaust, or to things like third world children being forced into prostitution, or to slavery (which still exists), or even to living in an occupied country or under a crazy fascist regime like, say, the Taliban.

The Seed was a lot of things. I would even go so far as to say it was an evil place. But I would NEVER call it a "concentration camp."

[Stripe]

I read the articles and links on regarding this Museum fiasco on The Straights.com.  

As you guys probably know, The Florida Holoc. Museum is headed by the former founders and former members of the board of directors of Staight, Inc.  These "awards" by the Museum are the "atta boy" awards they give each other in recognition of their good works with the Holo. Museum.

While I agree that the Seed and Straight were by no means concentration camps, Mel and Betty have taken their illgotten Straight Inc. gains and put at least a portion of those funds into another charitable organization, and it is a legitimate good organization.  But even still, putting the illgotten gains into a good cause does not excuse them.  Blood money is blood money.  

I can seek duplicitousness of the Semblers' and other Straight Inc board members current involvement with the Museum - it's plain as day. And I think that duplicity should be made clear to public and more importantly to the members and supporters ofthe Holo. Museum.  But that would be better accomplished by sending each supporter and member a personal letter explaining where the "seed" money came from, why it's tainted and why these people are harmful to the rememberance of holo. victims.  

Doing something like that would cause a much larger reaction that the Semblers and their former cronies would have to address. They could not blow that off as a bunch of angry, bitter crack pots with an agenda.

But like Greg and Marc, I think the the public won't be able to make that conection without a whole lot of supplemental information - certainly more information than could be put on a protest sign.  Hence, when the protesters make their appearance on 2/25 the Semblers win and the protestors are - once again - made out to be the bitter angry crack pots Betty loves to insult and dismiss.  

But she and Mel would be hard- pressed to dismiss the facts and numbers of thier own actions.  

Just a thought for a different approach...

[GregFL]

Stripe, you (and Marc) and me seem to be eye to eye on this subject.

I think that these people who ran straight, denying abuse all the way even as they were settling lawsuits for abuse...to then go sit on a board like the holocaust museum which attempts to honor those victims of abuse is way beyond hippocracy.


However Former clients of Straight declaring themselves victims of a holocaust on equal grounds of the german holocaust cuts the heart out of any argument they may have.  Holding signs up that say "the straight holocaust" to observers and passerbys of the holocaust museum paints them right into a corner of lack of credibility.

 Straight, The Seed, Even the worst of the breed, Kids helping Kids, were not even close to a "holocaust" as the term is used in popular society.  To claim so  is akin to someone with a missing pinkies holding up a sign   that says "I lost my arms".   Then how you holding the sign up, Skippy?

 You create a situation where people not only don't believe you, they dismiss you as a nut or on the fringe.

The thing is, I know a lot of these people and understand their intention is good.  Unfortunately, there is a right and wrong way to protest injustice.  This, in my opinion, is  counterproductive.

If they would remove the "straight holocaust" references and create a peacefull protest with factual claims, I would support them 100%

[Anonymous]

Protests don't work..They are just annoying for people that actually DON'T have the time protest and have real jobs..

[GregFL]

I don't think I agree with that.  Protests can be effective ways of

notifying the 'neighbors' of the offenders of the nature of your complaint.

embarrassing the focus of your attention.


However, extreme care must be taken in order to raise yourself way above the fray, lest you become the focus of attention instead of your intended target.

This is the problem we are discussing here.

[marcwordsmith]

Well, I didn't know about the Sembler connection so my last post was written in ignorance. The sentiment still stands, but now at least I get the idea of what the protesters would be trying to do.

I think Stripe's idea is excellent and would be effective, but how would we get the names and addresses of all the museum patrons and supporters? And who would pay for the mailing? Sounds like a lot of work. Are we that organized yet?

But what about a press release of some sort? Or a collectively signed letter to the editor, stating that, while we deeply respect the Holocaust Museum and the necessity not to forget the unthinkable atrocities and monumental tragedy of of the Holocaust, we find it ironic that two of the museum Board members are directly responsible for an entirely different massive atrocity, though not comparable in scale to the Holocaust (because what could be?), but an atrocious legacy nonetheless. We, survivors of Straight, Inc. etc. . . . hold Mel and Betty Sembler accountable for monstrous systematic abuse of young teens . . . perpetrated over a period of ___ years . . . etc. (And summarize the abuses perhaps.)

What do you think? Ginger, are you around? Seems like someone who is a Straight survivor should source this effort, were it to happen.

[Antigen]

Yeah, I'm around. Been busy, that's all.

I'm ambivalent as hell about the Holocause Museum protests. First off, ya'll just don't know the history of how Richard Bradburry's Community Improvement Foundation went about shutting down Straight, Inc. Rich stood out there protesting Straight Inc., usually all alone, from `85 till it finally shut down in like `93, I think. He may be crazy, but he ain't dumb. So I'm inclined to hunker and watch just on that count.

My only objection to the concept is that it's too damned much to explain. I get it, but even fellow program vets have a hard time understanding, and we all tend to be at least a little sympathetic going in.

I don't think it's off at all to reference the German Holocaust when discussing the drug war.

You say there are no death camps? I say there are. Here's a sad tale of one deader than dead scapegoat:
http://www.teenliberty.org/BootCamp.htm

Sadly, it's not an unusual story. Couple of times a year we get news of another one like this, or another suicide. And they don't always make the papers, folks, odds are we don't even know about all of them. But the stories we do know about are hauntingly similar. The kid always dies accused of faking and manipulating. The allegedly  horrible, soulless, dangerous kids around them never seem to have any difficulty telling the difference. But they're always scared to do anything to piss off the allegedly helpful staff who can't seem to see (or, in some cases, even smell) what's going on right in front of them, day after day after horrifying day.

How does that happen? Well, just read some of the TOUGHLOVE hategroup propaganda then you try and explain to me the difference between it and the National Socialist German Workers Party.

No, I think there's a valid point to the protest. I'm doubtful about their getting the message accross effectively in the way they're doing it. But then, I've known rich now for about 5 years. At every encounter, I've always wondered if he hadn't finally gone completely `round the bend.

But then, he's accomplished quite a bit. Just recently, gotten Betty Sembler under depo and Melvin's is coming up here shortly. If it weren't an 18 hour drive for me, I'd go. Not sure whether I'd want to hold a sign and stand w/ the protestors or just take some pics and see how the land lays. But I sure am not inclined to oppose the project.

A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fed_46.html' target='_new'>James Madison, The Federalist No. 46

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-30 06:18:00, Eudora wrote:



No, I think there's a valid point to the protest. I'm doubtful about their getting the message accross effectively in the way they're doing it.
"

That wraps up my feelings entirely.  While I think this is the case, I sincerely hope it is not and wish them the best..

To me, the best result of the protest would be the removal of all the offenders from the holocaust board.

Good luck to the protesters, and yes, protesting is a safe, legal, and effective way to convey a message...assuming you take appropriate actions to make yourself appear credible, lucid, and above the fray.

[GregFL]

Oops...that was me.

[Anonymous]

I have read Richard Bradbury's deposition in the lawsuit he involved with.

Semblers attorney asked some pretty stupid questions that opened the door and Richard Bradbury liken what happened to us at Straight to the Holocaust.

Semblers attorney totally flipped out at that point and made some pretty stupid comments and opened the door for Richard to state our points even more.

The Straight victims have a right to compare it to a holocaust on several points and Bradbury is not afraid to tell them so to their faces.

We have something to learn from him.

Straight was government supported, it was widespread, it was supported by presidents, Straight is and was national "drug policy."

If you compare just these points to how the Nazi's operated you will find many similar mode's of operation, aka "M.O.'s"

That's the point they are trying to make and it sure does have everyone's attention.

Good for the protesters I support them 100%.

[GregFL]

You may believe this with all your heart, but your credibility is on the line, and I see a problem with trying to convince the general public you were in a "holocaust".

You haven't convinced me, and I have spent years researching what happened and was in The Seed.



Further, Arnold Trebach warned  you guys about this before.  He told you to ALWAYS UNDERSTATE YOUR CASE or you will LOSE ALL CREDIBILITY.  The word Holocaust conjures imagery of starving kids, dead bodies and gas chambers.  Did you experience that?



Is this honestly what is occuring?  Can you say that with a straight face?  IF so, again I bid you good luck and success.