Dragonfly--> It would appear that the "forgiviness" thread has dropped by the wayside. Operative word being "appear". You have a very strong argument, and I find it fascinating and troublesome simultaniously. As such I have found it difficult to form a rebutal or at least an intelligable responce to your responce on my responce to your 1st responce. :silly:
Although your stance is elloquently stated, I am still digesting much of it. I am not convinced that I will be able to subcribe to your viewpoint entirely, however I concede that it has made an impression and I am now rexamining much of my thought on the subject of "forgiveness". Nuff said on that issue...for now anyhow.
In regard to this thread; I have never associated the Straight experience to that of monastic life. I was kinda shocked when I read your post. As I said, I never connected the dots (not that they are connected now) of the similarities tween the monistaries (sp) and Straight. Probably the reason your post struck such a nerve is because I have always thought of myself as one fitted for monastic life.
In one of Pirates recent post he discussed leaving everything behind and hitting the road in an effort to "find" himself. I also did that about 9 years ago. About 4 years prior to this quest I had been to Crestone Colorado (population about 600). Here at the foot hills was a string of monastic communities, Zen Buddihist, Taoist Temples and other eastern sects as well as more western religions, sisterhoods of catholosism (sp)...I don't recall the name of the sisters.
As time went on, I felt complled to return, and so I eventually set off back to the mountains. My journey did not take me back to Colorado as I had intended, but I found myself in yet another monastary just outside of Atlanta. (Conyers Ga....Rockdale County...not really near Atlanta, but close). I was there for a total of 3 weeks.
Here is thier website,
http://www.trappist.net/index.html (trappist sounds a little odd huh)
It turned out that the monastary was a place for Priest/Monks of that particualr order and also for Jesuit Priests (whom I found particualry fascinating) to retreat. It also served as an infirmary for ancient priests.
I did not, (still don't) embrace thier belief's. I made no effort to conceal this fact, they made no effort to prosthelitize (sp) me either. I rather enjoyed bantering with the Jesuit's. They seemed just as inquisitive as I was, if not more. I was impressed with thier refusal to "believe" anything because they were expected to believe any particular thing. Just the opposite...they questioned everything, even thier faith..
I digress...
When ya mentioned the parellel between Monastary's and Straight...I, like another poster in this thread, would love to hear more about it. A book was mentioned by Ex-Prisoner..."the roots of brainwashing in monasteries?" I would be real interested in that book being my next read.
EP...also asked/said "
why is self seen as bad and delusional? i think that's what straight stole and destroyed and that was real bad for us kids, in addition to all the other bad stuff they stole, destroyed and implanted in us."
"why is self seen as bad and delusional?"...I never really bought into the idea that I was fundementally "bad". I tend to think of it in terms of perminate or impermanate, when it comes to the "delusional" part of the question. I approached it thru a process of negation. ex: I am not my personality. I am not my hopes, I am not my aspirations, I am not my past...blah blah blah.
I have found in my experionce that if delusion is such a "bad" thing. Why is it that the dis-ilussionment (which is supposed to be a
good thing) is experienced with such grief?
Straight introduced us to the self-inquiry experience via the way of force, intimidation and humiliation at an totally inappropriate age . Force, intimidation and humiliation are not appropriate in any learning situation that I can think of. It is truly horrible that it happened...and continues to happen.
I think self-inquiry is a normal endeavor for people in general to one extent or another. But it can't be forced. I have said it here before. They fucked with the poured cement before it cured! So in time came the desire to know that
self we seem to be talking about I found alot of confusion, skepticisim and above all resistance. A natural experience in the human existance and has (again) been forever perverted.
I think Anon said it best here "We were'nt ready yet to give up our own identities and ego consciousness and delusions of self at the time." Eactly...as if I knew what my identity was! I was not a contemplative child upon my intake. I remember being asked what I saw for my future...foolishly I was honest. Because I (at that age) could not fathom a future, and so I answered by saying " I see a black hole". Once said, the tempo of the intake increased. My fate was sealed with those words.
Funny...never expected such indepth responce. Much more to it than I had priviously thought...like there is anything trivial about Straight Inc.
Apologies for rambling
