Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Daytop Village
Tough Love- nonsense
Paul St. John:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-10 09:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm not sure of when or how you were affiliated with Daytop, but since the 1970's they have espoused the tough love philosophy. The only problem is that they provided the tough, but not the love.
In addition, the staff were program grads with no credentials other than that they were (or are) drug addicts and went thru Daytop. There were many staff who were active addicts and alcoholics, including Directors who were drunk and/or high on the job. When they get caught violating policy, they start up the merry-go-round and simply reassign the offenders to new posts at new sites.
Basically, Daytop is a dump that treats its clients like dirt and employs a confrontational "therapy" program that clearly does not work. Internal Daytop statistics (up to 1996) show an 80% recidivism rate, that is 80% of people who finish the program go right back to getting high.
If you need help, seek it elsewhere with competent therapists, not where your primary care staff are active addicts and drunks practicing ineffective confrontational so-called "therapy."
"
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Anonymous...
very impressive post.. I was not aware of the whole merry-go-round thing.
Paul
odie:
Actually thats a pretty good statistic that 80% relapse which means 20% succeed, much higher than the 2% national average. As far as non credentialed staff you're probably referring to non college educated staff since all counselor's need to be licensed today. I'll admit it wasn't always like that, but times change. I'm not so sure that that any amount of education can be pitted against life experience but when you combine the two, now you have a good counselor.
It takes a village idiot to believe that a family needs instruction from the government to raise a child.
-- Anonymous homeschooler
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Paul St. John:
--- Quote ---On 2006-01-17 12:29:00, odie wrote:
"Actually thats a pretty good statistic that 80% relapse which means 20% succeed, much higher than the 2% national average.
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Daytop, and the Monsignor claim an 80% success rating. In my dealing with counselors, they attempt to appear to the parents of clients as all knowing experts. They compare Daytop philosophy to an exact science. They don't say, " Yeah, this works about two out of ten times, and the odds arre that you are doing this for nothing. ( I don t think that they would get many clients, if they were upfront like that. Most would probably just ratyher go it alone)
Also, am I correct in thinking that this national average really just compares Daytop to other similar programs, with different names?
And fundamentally, what it comes down to, is that while it may work for 20% of people, that statistic does not guage at what price sobriety was achieved.
I quit drugs on my own because I wanted to, and so did many others I know, but we didn t have to destroy our own identities first. I am not a part of the national average though, I would guess.
I can testify to this from experience: Almost everyone I had asked both while in Daytop, and even now years later, has told me that they became far more a drug addict AFTER leaving the program then they ever would have had they stayed.
I remember while I was there that mild pot smokers would leave the program, and return later with full-blown drug problems. And still today, I hear from people that they became drug addicts after leaving.
Also, you hear from some that while they may have been able to maintain sobriety after leaving Daytop, the world was scary to them after leaving, they no longer fit in with their peers, and/or their they are not as close with their family.
[/quote]
Troll Control:
Self treatment with no program or counseling is effective 15% of the time. Daytop has statistics stating "20%" but they are skewed. Not to mention that they publicly claim an 80% success rate. It's bologna. Most of their staff are active users themselves.
odie:
Just wondering if anybody can show me the documentation of this so called 80% success rate. I know while I was there they had research but I believe that the 80% rate was the percentage of people that continued to stay clean from a group that had been clean 5 years. As far as mild pot smokers leaving and getting hooked on heavier drugs and returning there, well they had no reason to be there in the first place. Marijuana is a gateway drug for some and it stands to reason regardless if they went to Daytop or any other program they would eventually get hooked on something worse if they continue to use. What needs to be remebered here that Daytop and most programs like it is a last resort for people that nothing else has worked for.If people are being sent there that don't meet the criteria then yes, it is totally wrong. They should meet ASAM Level III.5 to be accepted there. If not well I'd suggest maybe someone talk to their funding sources and have them investigate it.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. The limit of oppression is determined by the extent of the endurance of the oppressed.
--Frederick Douglas
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