Author Topic: Spring Creek Lodge  (Read 355147 times)

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Offline Irish Mom

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« Reply #1185 on: March 29, 2006, 12:58:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-29 08:46:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

"I for one, would like you to stick around ANON. I will try not to give you too hard of a time! It's hard sometimes because HELLO didn't you think it was a little odd how they were running things in general? Didn't you think it was a little harsh? I mean, maybe you didn't see students getting beat, those were always things that I am sure were done more privately because they are not stupid. But, the emotional abuse is pretty obvious. As a staff member, I know you could see that. From day 1, not day 2, 3, 1 week, 1 month, etc. from the very start. So, naturally I can't help but wonder what kind of person are you?



As for Exit Plan, if I were closer to you in distance, I would give you a big hug. It pains me to read that you're shaking out there somewhere. Just know I am sending you a long distance hug.



I am thankful we have a place we can all talk. We are learning from one another. I just wish we could do something more about it, so we can make it stop. I don't want to be on here 5 years from now, and have the next generation coming on here posting the same types of things we are posting. That would be a shame.



Gotta go!"


I finally got rid of the baghead, so maybe now you all will see I'm not "hiding" behind it.  I just never got around to getting a screename.

CCM you say I should have realized what kind of place it was from day one, but that's not always possible.  Maybe I should explain how the process goes when you're hired out there.

You start what is called Observation Week.  This is where they throw all the stuff you are supposed to know at you in one week.  You go to different families for a few hours a day to see how they are run.  While you're doing this you're supposed to be taking notes and asking any question that I want you to.  Meanwhile, you're thrown into an enviroment that is totally foreign to some people and expected to know everything within that week.  It's very, very overwhelming at times.  I didn't even get a full week of training before I was put in charge of 26 girls, who came from all different kinds of background and with all types of problems.  

When you first start there they tell you not to believe a word these kids say. They're all liars and terrible brats. I'd better say those aren't my words before anyone jumps on me for it...lol.  You're there to enforce the rules, not be their friend.  That was the first sign to me that something was wrong.  It went against my nature as a Mom to not want to "take care" of these girls like a Mom should.  Maybe that was totally naieve of me, but then according to Julie, that's what I was.  Yes, I went into it blindly.  I thought it was a "boarding school" for kids with "problems" and I thought I could maybe help, but like you said they didn't want me to help the kids...I was there to "guard" them and enforce "consequences".

Maybe we don't see the negative things that are there right away because it's to horrible to realize what is actually going on there.  I never said that I didn't see the emotional and mental abuse going on, in fact, I said the opposite.  The only thing I had said was that I didn't see the "physical" abuse happening and that's what everyone jumped on.

CCM you say that you wonder what kind of person I am that I stayed past days 1,2 ,3, etc.  Does staying to try to make a difference make me a bad person?  Maybe it was naieve on my part to think I could actually make a difference, but I did think that.  I still keep in contact with some of the girls in my family and they tell me that they are so glad I stayed, even after the shit I got from other staff and managment.  I didn't stay for the money or to pay my bills like I was accused of.  I stayed because I cared and if that's the wrong thing in your eyes, then so be it.  Hearing from them means more to me than what you think of me.

I'm still trying to make a difference out there, but now my hands are really tied, because I'm not out there to keep track of what's happening and report it.  People are leaving that place in HUGE numbers!  They've already gone through everyone in the community and there isn't anyone left to go work there, so who knows what will happen now.

I'm sorry if I'm not as well versed or as good at getting my feelings across the correct way as some of you are.  I'm still learning about all the bullshit that's really out there and I just say what I feel, but it always seems to be taken wrong and I don't know how to change that.  If you have any suggestions as to how I can come across better or what else I can do to keep trying to get these places closed, please feel free to email me at mo-anam-cara@hotmail.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Despair or folly?  It is not despair, for despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.  We do not.  It is wisdom to recognize neccessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false h

Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #1186 on: March 29, 2006, 02:59:00 PM »
Irish Mom, I think you're doing the right thing.  These places are very resilient and resourceful.  The idea of "shutting them all down" is a bit Pollyanna.

Keep doing what you're doing.

I was a staff member over ten years ago for a facility called "Hidden Lake Academy."  It was disturbing and I left after a short tenure.

One day I was searching the net to see what ever happened to that place (I was sure it must have been shuttered) and was greatly surprised to see they were still around.  

To make a long story short, I started posting my impressions, experiences, etc.  That was over a thousand posts ago...and counting.

Keep educating readers as much as you can.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1187 on: March 29, 2006, 04:29:00 PM »
Irish Mom, I think you can take it. If you can take what did you say? A year in that environment? You can stand a little harsh language in the printed word read at your pleasure and convenience. Hell, you should see some of the fucked up things ppl say to and about me around here sometimes. I don't always like it, but eh, it really doesn't bother me anymore.

Where do you think it comes from? Knowing what you know about the Program and how it works, why do you think some of these people would respond in that way?

I think I have a pretty good idea, tough of course I can only speak for myself. And I certainly couldn't articulate it or even really understand it even a couple of years ago when I started this site, nevermind 23 years when I first escaped one of these places.

Everybody in the industry, except a sadistic few, are working from good intentions. Art Barker was, I'm sure of it. Chuck Dederich probably was, at least early on. Hard to believe he still didn't know how fucked up he was toward the end. But then it's not impossible to believe it either. This is the nature of corruption. This is how the Program works.

When I went in, I had good intentions. My intention was to tough it out without compromising my own ethics till I could split, graduate or come of age. I was 15.75 years old when I made that resolution. And, except for a very few, deeply disturbing and very brief lapses of insanity, I thought that's just what I was doing, even right up till the end. I split just about exactly 2 years later, so close to either of two finish lines, when things went really beyond the pale, even for that place.

But I discovered, gradually, over many years how just being in that environment, going through the motions had effected me deeply. It changed my personality, my perspective on many things, even my very perception of things. This not only against my will but also without my notice. I thought I was immune. I thought I understood all there was to understand about it.

And it wasn't so much the things we all put up with on the lower phases, though those are the things most often mentioned and most easily understood by outlanders as bad. It was the things we all had to do in the role of peer staff, as everyone who progresses beyond the very first phase or level essentially plays.

If you want a quick read on how that happens, check out the Stanford Prison Experiment.
http://www.prisonexp.org/

You may be gratified and comforted to know that even these trained psyche researchers didn't see it coming.

So can you see why it might be hard for someone to trust or easily understand how and why a well inteded person could do that job for so long?

Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1188 on: March 29, 2006, 08:43:00 PM »
Okay I can see my comment about the staff being a "Montana inbred" ruffled some feathers.  I am not usually a name caller and retract that part of my posting.  I'd like to return to participating in this conversation rationally.

However, I do stand by the fact that I think staff shouldn't keep working at a place they disagree with.  What if they all or even half quit at once?  Like many people on here, I refuse to sympathize with staff, it's a ludicrous suggestion given what others have lived through.  I was not at SCL, but I was at CCM where they had small locked rooms, and I was also at another program where they also had similar isolation rooms.  I've been locked up for nearly a month at the longest and cannot begin to describe the way that changes a person.  I'm in my twenties now and can still remember the feeling of having someone, or multiple someones, keeping me secluded from human contact for weeks on end.  I would've killed myself on several occasions, rather than endure another day of that, if we were allowed any possessions so I could give it a real try.  I was insulted, laughed at, and looked down upon with disgust.  I wasn't treated like a human.  Animals deserve better treatment.  

I do still think that people who've been kept locked up, placed in isolation, and had unreasonable punishments done to them have the right to question their former jailers and ask, What on earth were you thinking?  Why didn't you try to save me?  How could you keep cashing paychecks and coming to work for an organization that jails kids just because their parents are willing to pay for it?
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Offline Irish Mom

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« Reply #1189 on: March 29, 2006, 09:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-29 17:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Okay I can see my comment about the staff being a "Montana inbred" ruffled some feathers.  I am not usually a name caller and retract that part of my posting.  I'd like to return to participating in this conversation rationally.



However, I do stand by the fact that I think staff shouldn't keep working at a place they disagree with.  What if they all or even half quit at once?  Like many people on here, I refuse to sympathize with staff, it's a ludicrous suggestion given what others have lived through.  I was not at SCL, but I was at CCM where they had small locked rooms, and I was also at another program where they also had similar isolation rooms.  I've been locked up for nearly a month at the longest and cannot begin to describe the way that changes a person.  I'm in my twenties now and can still remember the feeling of having someone, or multiple someones, keeping me secluded from human contact for weeks on end.  I would've killed myself on several occasions, rather than endure another day of that, if we were allowed any possessions so I could give it a real try.  I was insulted, laughed at, and looked down upon with disgust.  I wasn't treated like a human.  Animals deserve better treatment.  



I do still think that people who've been kept locked up, placed in isolation, and had unreasonable punishments done to them have the right to question their former jailers and ask, What on earth were you thinking?  Why didn't you try to save me?  How could you keep cashing paychecks and coming to work for an organization that jails kids just because their parents are willing to pay for it?"





Yes, your comment about my being a "montana inbred" was totally uncalled for, especially since I'm not even from Montana.  It will take a lot more than being called names to hurt me, so if it makes you feel any better,go ahead.  

I'm not asking for your sympathy at all. I don't need it, nor do I want it. I stayed at my job for a reason, and I was able to accomplish a little of what I realized needed to be done.  Maybe it's not up to your standards of what you feel I should have done, but I can't help that.  I guess you feel I could have done more by just quiting and doing nothing.  That wasn't for me.  I wanted to do something, anything to get the word out to CPS as to what was going on.  This will be my last time justifying to you my reasons for staying there.

After finding this site and reading what a lot of you have gone through, I'm even more convinced that what I did was correct.  If CPS is even able to either get things changed or get this place shut down, because of the info I was able to give them, then I'm happy.  There are now a set of parents that have info to help their lawsuit because I was able to get stuff to them.  Maybe that's not enough in your book.

I won't even attempt to say that I understand what you've gone through.  That would be stupid, but I can say I'm so very, very sorry.  Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but I am truly sorry for what you suffered through.

Irish Mom


[ This Message was edited by: Irish Mom on 2006-03-29 18:45 ]
Formatting:[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-30 11:40 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Despair or folly?  It is not despair, for despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.  We do not.  It is wisdom to recognize neccessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false h

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1190 on: March 30, 2006, 12:02:00 AM »
I understand that it would be just as shocking for a staff as for a teen to realize on that first day that what is going on just isn't right.  I do see your point that you called CPS and tried to document what you saw.  I was thinking about how you seem to be a staff who did think about doing something and make some attempts, but you were basically ignored.  Maybe I think I would have done things a little differently, but it's not productive for me to continue to speculate on what I would've done or criticize your choices.  

The staff are going to be far more credible witnesses of abuse than the teens, who are discredited by the parent handbook and program even before their arrival.  Does anyone have any ideas of ways to help staff organize and publicize what they've seen?  So many of WWASP staff are family members & family friends, and it seems a shame that one who is actually outspoken has only been heard on Fornits.
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Offline Irish Mom

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« Reply #1191 on: March 30, 2006, 12:33:00 AM »
Most of you may not understand this, but unfortunately most of the people that work at SCL are afraid to speak up because they HAVE to have their jobs.  This is an extremely poor county and jobs are very, very scarce.  SCL is the largest employer in the county.  From what I've heard almost everyone in the county has worked there, especially those in Thompson Falls.
Families are struggling to stay together and even be able to afford decent places to live and to be able to take care of their children.  A lot of the employees out there are related to each other either by blood or by marriage, so what you do out there can affect your family.  I was one of the lucky ones who didn't need to work.

Does this make their silence right?  No, but I can see why they are so afraid to speak up. SCL has fingers in a lot of pies in this town.  They spread a lot of dough around and unfortunately too many people here need it.

The other thing is I don't think this town is exactly known for their activism.  I remember reading a post where someone said it was full of "redneck working class stiffs" or something to that effect.  That's not far from the truth.  They need to be educated on how to take a stand against this, but damn there is so much WWASP brainwashing that goes on I don't know how that will ever happen.  Any suggestions?

I have noticed something in the last few months that might seem promising.  They are leaving that place in droves!  One shift had 5 people walk off that weekend!  Maybe that's a start?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1192 on: March 30, 2006, 11:57:00 AM »
I guess you can understand why WWASPS picks places like this community to set up shop.

Too many people would rather grasp at a straw than make the hard choice of moving someplace they can move to where they can get a job and pay the rent.

My family on my dad's side has several generations in a community that is similar in a lot of ways.

One of the things people do is get jobs as truckers.  Their job is on the road, so it doesn't matter where their family lives.

Some places you have to own a large piece of land free and clear to be able to feed yourself and afford to live there.  Sure, you can buy enough land to stick a house or trailer on, cheap.  But you can't earn enough to pay your bills and feed yourself on---not without selling your soul to someplace like SCL.

What I want you to do is convince your county officials to go to the state and see if you can develop a plan and get some development money to get it into action.

What your county needs to do is sit down with some bright whiz kids and come up with a niche.

For example, the area where my parents live/family is from, has a lot of small machine shops.  They do parts orders for various places that need parts, and since there are a *lot* of small machine shops, if an order is too big for one they can collaborate.  If one goes under, the employees have other places to go.  The better managed ones prosper, the poorly managed ones go out of business.  But because the county has it going as a small industry, businesses who need that know where to look for suppliers to fill their various parts orders.  Your usual supplier too full up to get your contract out when you need it?  They can refer you to the shop down the street that can---and the shop down the street can refer overflow business back.  Upgrading equipment?  Somebody wants your used stuff.  Can't keep the business afloat?  There *is* someone to buy your assets.

You need a niche.  Other than SCL.

Practically speaking, I suspect SCL probably keeps on as good of financial terms as they find necessary with your local elected officials.  By which I mean that if they aren't on the take now, if the citizenry rocks the boat, they will be.

Small, rural counties often work that way.  Even if, now, the benefit to the officials is just occasionally getting taken to lunch, or getting treated with respect by people who look important.  And your elected officials can genuinely tell themselves they're doing "the right thing" for the county.

You need a development plan.

For one thing, there are frequently programs that provide money for vocational training.  A group of enough of you together could pick up something you could set up as a manufacturing business and run for enough to pay the bills.  Given foreign competition, nobody would be getting rich.

Still, you could get a bunch of you getting training with the financial assistance available to fill the needed roles in your desired business, and then get a small business loan to set it up.  Put it in the names of the wives in whatever way you have to to fulfill the requirements of a woman-owned business---because it broadens your loan and grant opportunities.

You can't do it in a haphazard way.  There's got to be a very solid analysis of the markets available and your competition.  Then you've got to have several somebodies smart enough to do the beancounter work, several somebodies hard-nosed enough to do the management work and run it with an eye to the bottom line, not as a charity for local employment.  You've got to have somebodies smart enough to keep your costs and prices down and keep you competitive.  You've got to have somebodies with the sales and marketing talents to get out there and sell your products.

Failure to plan is planning to fail.  You have to have a solid economic development plan.

The people orchestrating the effort and those that ultimately benefit from it also have to be prepared to make lifelong and vicious local enemies of a number of people very interested in the initial idea---interested in emotional buy in, interested in talking about it, sometimes actually getting the training to do some of the jobs.

Because a number of the ones that try will be either incompetent or won't work out as employees for some other reason.  Or their wife or husband or kid or parent or cousin won't work out.

You have to have people running it who are hard nosed enough to put the bottom line first, or it will fail.  You have to allow some individuals to fail to have anyone succeed.

Even among those who fail, *most* of them will be able to get some kind of job in a shop or food service or cleaning service that doesn't exist now.  But they will still hate you, because especially if they went and got training, they'll feel like they deserve something better.

The competent ones who just don't fit in will leave town and get jobs someplace they do fit in.  The incompetent ones will bitch, moan, complain, and hate you bitterly.

Capitalism *works*---but you have to have enough faith in yourself to get out and do it.  What you *don't* have to do is already be successful---because there are a lot of grant and loan options out there to get your plan working *if* you build the plan.

But nobody can help your community if you won't pull together and plan.

You can even tell people up front (because everybody will say "it won't be me that fails") that some of the people who try won't succeed at their training or won't be able to get the job done as employees for one reason or another.  That the plan won't promise to take care of everybody and won't even try.  That individuals are going to have to set their sights on what they really can learn how to do, work hard to learn how to do it, and once you start up, work hard at their jobs and work hard to get along with their coworkers.

Your salaried jobs will probably be working sixty hour weeks just so you don't have to hire as many people and can put those salaried jobs in the hands of people with the talents and temperament to do them best.

You may have to bring in talent from outside the county to run marketing, sales, operations, and the top slot.  If you do, it's an understatement to say that that will be an unpopular choice.

You'd have to have a cabal of the most level-headed women, and most able to be hard-nosed capitalists, to own the company and take out the loans.  Women who can recognize competence and aren't afraid to hire it.  Women who either don't have shiftless husbands or fathers, etc., or exceptionally hard-nosed women who will be willing to sacrifice those relationships, if necessary, to avoid putting father, husband, brother, son, son-in-law, etc. in jobs they can't or won't do right.

Or, if your only business talent is men, you may have to take the harder path of getting business loans and assistance for them to own and run your new significant employer.

Some disgruntled people will set up in competition with the main line of the project---or will try.  If you picked the best talents (business savvy and work ethic are talents) for the main line effort, it will succeed.  The competition will either succeed or fail depending on *their* talents.

Anyway, capitalism works.  But only if you're willing to put in the skull sweat, develop a viable plan, and implement it without being a soft touch for schmucks, micromanagers, abrasive assholes who do more harm than good, and other bad employees/managers.

But it obviously has to be an industry that can sell goods or services to the people outside your community, at a profit, and bring an influx of cash.

The Chamber of Commerce, Lion's Club, or Rotary Club--that kind of thing, anyway, in Helena would be a good place to find successful businessmen who might be willing to take on helping you put together a development plan as a charitable project and a way to "give back" to the state.  The business-oriented departments of state universities also might have graduate students willing to take on helping you develop a plan as a project for academic credit.  Or you might be able to get one of the professors to make helping your county develop a plan a class project for one of their courses.

Instead of leaving it to county government, what you'd really want to do is organize your friends and neighbors into an economic development club.

Blah-blah County Economic Development Society or somesuch.

I suspect SCL will see it (correctly) as a threat and try to sabatoge it.  I suspect they'll play dirty.  Just don't let them.  They can't stop you if you start the club yourself and don't let their influences in the door.

You can develop a business plan for whatever size group of people you get to buy in---from one or two to hundreds or even thousands.  Profitable enterprises come in all shapes and sizes.

Your county's biggest problem is the same as the biggest problem of all rural, poor counties.  Laying down and giving up and believing the lie that you can't do it.  People need stuff.  People want to buy stuff.  People want to trade with you if you will figure out what they need and want and bring it to the table.

With educational and small business assistance available for government, the only reason for a community to fail in the US is if everybody moves out and leaves it a ghost town (which truly isn't a failure---the *people* are fine, just elsewhere), or if they give up and don't try.

Take the damn grants and loans.  The worst that can happen is that you'd have to declare bankruptcy.  Go for the grants as much as possible, of course, because student loans are almost never dischargeable in bankruptcy---but there are ways to fiddle with that a lot to ease the pain.

On business grants and loans, the worst that can happen, if you incorporate, is that the business fails.

And if someone learns a useful trade and the business fails (or they get fired or not hired), they don't necessarily have only the option of bankruptcy---they can move and get a job somewhere else in their field.

Your worst case on getting your friends and neighbors together in an economic development club and getting help with a solid business plan is better than your best case of just sitting there and waiting for some business from outside the community to come in and rescue you---or worse, just giving up altogether.

Warning:  Don't let the Chamber of Commerce or the elected officials run the thing.  It leaves your organization too susceptible to any sabotage efforts SCL might choose to try.  Understand in advance that in *some* counties, county officials could be persuaded to fuck with you with zoning problems, construction permits, and other red tape.  I don't know if your county is like that, but in some counties there is corruption that is so entrenched that moving is the best choice there is.

Anyway, don't just say how poor your county is.  Change it.  *You* can do that.  All you have to do is stand up and lead---and know *where* to lead.  Which I've just told you.

BTW---I ran a just-me consulting business, incorporated, at a very solid profit and just dissolved it when I wanted to do something else.  I'm now running a just-me small business as a writer.  Again, profitable.  It *is* possible to run both kinds so badly you run at a loss or go out of business.  Both small (very small) businesses were/are net contributors to my community because they bring in money from outside.  In both cases, the difference from being an employee is having to deal with the paperwork and business decisions yourself.

My uncle ran a successful machine shop small business.  My mother in law ran a small business that failed.  My husband's grandfather has run multiple successful small businesses, some very small, some at the upper end of "small"--he was a developer building condos in Florida.  I've seen friends run small businesses that failed, and some that succeeded.

Do your market research.  Keep your expenses down--especially unnecessary business trips. Don't buy or rent facilities or office space you can manage without--not until there's a *strong* business case for renting/buying the space. Don't turn away work just because it's uninteresting.  Don't run it as a charity.  Don't make hard luck loans.  Don't make people part owners unless they buy in with cash---but be damned careful about who's holding the controlling interest and who could potentially buy it up.  After you're up and running, you can potentially offer valued employees opportunity to buy in at a discounted share price as a reward (new issue shares), but keep the discount small and limit who you offer the opportunity to.  Don't hire people who you don't need or who are bad business choices because of family ties, domestic pressure, or friendship.  Don't undercapitalize.  Don't mistake spinning your wheels in the office at something that's "work" (like sitting at your front desk and answering the phone) if it's not the thing you could do that most contributes to or preserves your bottom line.  Don't hesitate to fire deadwood.  Don't hire people with red flags of deadwood in the first place.  Don't hesitate to hire from outside if those are the talents I want you to have---but make wise cost/benefit decisions about it.  Know the difference between salary and profit.  Be damned careful who you have doing the books and touching the money, and watch them like a hawk.  Sales and marketing are your lifeblood.  You can have the best product in the world, and if you can't or don't sell it at a sufficient profit margin, you're screwed.

Ginger may agree or disagree with me on some of this.  Listen to her.  She and her husband are also running an apparently successful small business.  That is, I assume she's in the black and not the red---if you're going to ask her, might be tactful to ask privately.  She could always tell you to go to hell, but she seems pretty nice so I wouldn't be surprised if she could give you some good advice.

But don't roll over and play dead and say the county is poor.  Fix it.  You're obviously smart.  Running a business isn't rocket science, it just takes finding out how and exercising the self-discipline to do it.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1193 on: March 30, 2006, 03:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-29 21:33:00, Irish Mom wrote:

"Most of you may not understand this, but unfortunately most of the people that work at SCL are afraid to speak up because they HAVE to have their jobs.  This is an extremely poor county and jobs are very, very scarce.  

Yeah, I get that. Corn Pone Opinions. But there's more to it than just giving lip service to protect ones income or safety. Most people don't really get that because they haven't had to wrestle with it on a personal level. I have. In order to ever look at my father again and not see a monster, I had to understand this. And it also goes to what I was trying to explain about the program vets who are treating you badly or seem to be.

Fear does funny things to ones mind. We all understand that fear can make you do and say things against your own moral code. Think not? OK you just keep on telling yourself that. There are very, very few people who can actually, consistently or even usually stick closely to their moral code when the stakes are really high. But what happens next? How do you deal w/ living in your own skin once you've started down that road that leads away from your own idea of what a good and decent person is?

Most people will revise their ideas about what a good person is, what they do and how they do it to conform to what they are. And one core component of the Program is to offer you--no push upon you, surround you with--that alternative philosophy that you'll be needing.

I understand what might compel the people in that town to go to desperate measures to hang on to home and family and hope for a better future. And how well I understand how and why the Program keeps stroking their hopes and egos if they tow the line.

We all know about the stick that goes with that carrot. But I think, in order to get the locals who support any of these places to get behind any real plans to get rid of these places, they have to come to understand that the carrot is toxic and counterfeit.

I can well imagine how Program influence must have effected views and practices on parenting and other important social relationships in that town over the years. I bet what they're getting out of the deal is not worth the necessary compromises to those ideals that they started out working to save. Can they understand that? Eventually?

One things for sure, we'll never get them to open their eyes to it by classing them all as criminals and cowards in league w/ Robert Browning Litchfield. That's not accurate anyway and the truth is so much more compelling.

Quote
I have noticed something in the last few months that might seem promising. They are leaving that place in droves! One shift had 5 people walk off that weekend! Maybe that's a start?


That's very encouraging! Maybe they're ready to flip?

If you ask the Government for the right to assemble you deserve to be told no .
 

--Jim Lesczynski, Manhattan LP chair, on "unorganized" gathering @ Central Park

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1194 on: March 30, 2006, 09:57:00 PM »
It was the same way in LaVerkin, where Cross Creek Manor is.  It is an extremely small town; one could walk from one side to the other.  Bob Litchfield is related by blood or marriage to many of the staff.  His wife's maiden name was Peart.  His sister in law is Marie Peart, who claims to be a neutral ed con, her son and also husband Blair worked at CCM, his sister Mary Beth worked at CCM and then got married and her husband got a program, brother Narvin worked at Teen Help referral service located in the same building as Brightway when it was open, etc.  Karr Farnsworth's wife and daughter also work for CCM.  Many staff would get jobs and get their spouses, siblings, or other relatives hired, so they stood to lose all income if they had problems at work.  I am very grateful that I live in California and don't have so few options that I have to choose between my income and my morals.  However, I do wonder what the families working for SCL did before the facility opened.
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Offline Irish Mom

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« Reply #1195 on: March 30, 2006, 10:49:00 PM »
Before SCL most people either worked at one of the Lumber mills that were in operation or the mine.  I'm not sure of the details, but one mill burned down and as far as I know there is one mine in operation.  There is a rumour that another mine will be opening soon and the pay is supposed to be extremely good, so it should be interesting to see what happens to most of the SCL staff.

It's sad that they are the biggest employer, yet the pay isn't all that good.  They could really afford to pay their staff more if the money was being used properly, if ya know what I mean :wink:

Thompson Falls is not a bad place.  It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, but it's only affordable to retired people or those with lots and lots of money.  I can't remember who said it, but someone on here said that that's why they put these kind of programs in places like this.  It's remote, not much to do, and they can really take over control by being the largest employer around.  So very, very sad....
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Despair or folly?  It is not despair, for despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.  We do not.  It is wisdom to recognize neccessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false h

Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #1196 on: March 31, 2006, 10:50:00 AM »
Why would they want to pay their staff anymore then they had too? If they were smart, and obviously they were.....they'd make it so everyone had enough money to just get by. Otherwise, you would have people starting to save their money. With money, comes the power to leave (if you don't like what's going on), and start your own business.......or just move and get the hell outta Dodge! I mean Thompson Falls :smile:!!!!
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f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1197 on: March 31, 2006, 11:05:00 AM »
I think Marie Peart works for PURE now.

 :grin:
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #1198 on: March 31, 2006, 11:35:00 AM »
You're right about the money thing, CCM. All of these places seem to play it the same way. Even when Art Barker was raking in millions, living in a mansion and riding around in a chauffeur (one of the very few black Seedlings) driven limo, he still paid group staff something around or less than minimum wage and constantly cried poor mouth. They actually uesd to pass a collection plate at Open Meetings every Friday night, just like an AA or other religious service.

This is also something that wife beaters routinely do. Here's the most interesting part. Even the dumb ones restrict resources. It's not asif it takes a genius to pull off this kind of 'prison without walls' kind of control. It's instinctive.

Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author

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« Reply #1199 on: March 31, 2006, 03:05:00 PM »
Nothing "neutral" about Marie Peart. She works at PURE and along with Sue Scheff, they send kids to some of the most abusive programs around, like Whitmore Academy.
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