Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Dear John

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someone:
Hi John,

I remember you well. I know that what you say is true. Isn't it nice to have someone affirm the things you say even when you already know that what you are saying is true?

I was involved with The Seed in Fort Lauderdale for a very, very long time. I was never a staff member; just a volunteer. I must say it was a ?tough love? program. I will also say that at times it was very harsh, but I remember a lot of the people that entered the program were in very bad shape (not everyone was just a 15 year old spoiled brat cry-baby that couldn't get over him or herself). Many of the people that came to the Seed were desperate for help. I for one ? and it was not easy!

Getting off drugs was not the hard part; I had many other problems that were very serious. I learned to live a great life in spite of any treatment that made me uncomfortable. I am very grateful for this. I have learned to be very successful in life, in business, in education, and in society. I am very well adjusted and do not carry a chip on my shoulder for whatever treatment I felt was unjust ? that?s life. Trust me: in the many, many years that I spent volunteering my time at The Seed, I can assure you that I was not always the most popular or favored individual nor did I always like the people that worked at The Seed, but I had the depth to interpret the principals and learn to apply them to my life. I learned to be extremely tough. Trust me when I say that I had very thin skin when I was young. I definitely went through my growing pains, but I grew up!

Good God ? move on!
   
People are people, and it is amazing how with time and circumstances they change ? some for the better and some for the worse. The reality is that people are very unpredictable, and often you don?t learn the truth about someone until he or she is truly tested.

I know that my life would not be what it is today if I had not learned the things I did at The Seed. It's a shame that Greg and many others missed the point. The shame is that you all waste so much time being so self-absorbed when there are so many real tragedies going on all around you.

I see people all the time who have real problems over which they have no control. I cannot imagine wasting my time dwelling on a situation that occurred 20 or 30 years ago. I can understand venting, but at some point you have to get over it and get on with your life. There's nothing left to destroy. The Seed is gone. I don't see the point in going on and on and on endlessly over petty resentments. It's like playing tic-tac-toe: most people, by the age of 10 realize that it?s pointless.

Ft. Lauderdale:
:nworthy:  :nworthy:  :nworthy:

Stripe:

--- Quote ---On 2005-12-01 22:06:00, someone wrote:

 The Seed is gone.
"

--- End quote ---



Well, I say good riddence to a bad place. However, I can appreciate that you experienced it and processed it in a way that is acceptable to you and allows you to have a meaningful and productive life. That's good.

I note that you said the program made you tough, forced you to grow up, get rid of your thin skin. I had the same experience, but unfortunately, instead of externalizing the thoughness like you have, I spent many years turning it on myself.  

The Seed as "tough love". No truer words have been spoken.  Too bad it wasn't a self-love and self-acceptance program instead.

I ask you, how could every person who walked through the doors be "full of shit" and "selfish users"  "liars" and all the other negative things that seed kids were forced to embrace and believe about themselves?  But then, at The Seed, denying that you had those qualities actually proved that you have them.  

Welcome to the Land of Oz and lucky for you it's all neatly reconciled.  Others have not had it so easy. It might seem like whining to you, but then a scrambled psyche is never a pretty sight.  Maybe someday we will all be able to embrace all of it.  I know that's the path I'm on now.

I, too, know that my life would not be what it is today if I had not been at the seed.  If I had not been taught/forced to turn against my true self, to judge myself and judge others so very harshly and continually attempt to "do the right things so the right things will happen",  I suspect I might have had a life rich in connection and well-being and full of people who accepted the true me.

Instead I turned into an obsessive, neurotic, over-achiever who has never actually believed I desereved anything I have worked so hard to get.  Adopting the Seed philosophy and trying to use it long term in my life has been like swallowing lye and having to keep it inside, all the while never knowing it was eating me alive. Once it ate through, you're right --- I was mad as hell and my "venom" and rotteness spilled out for everyone to experience.

It's mop up time now, thank goodness and I have a good mop and lots of folks who are willing to help empty the buckets. I, for one, am grateful for what I learn here from all the participants, including you.

Anonymous:
Are you sure you would not have been that way anyway? I'm not being a jerk.  I'm being honest.
Some people want to blame someone for everything instead of accepting the responsibility on their own.

Stripe:

--- Quote ---On 2005-12-02 07:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Are you sure you would not have been that way anyway? I'm not being a jerk.  I'm being honest.

Some people want to blame someone for everything instead of accepting the responsibility on their own."

--- End quote ---



Yes, some people might, but I don?t think I?m one of them.  How much responsibility I accept for my psychological reaction to being brainwashed and punished for things I never did is a tough question answer.  Apparently, persons can live a lifetime  trying to compensate for some pretty deep stuff and never really know the root cause.  Some people go silently to their demise, others blowup, and others never even wake up.


There?s really no way for me to answer your question that won?t get my ass-kicked by the people who fully believe in the value of tough love programs.  If I disagree with your presumption that I would have been ?that way anyway? then I?m in the proverbial denial patch and I?m ?blaming someone for everything instead of accepting responsibility? on my own.  And if I agree with you, then I have completely invalidated the actions I have taken in my life to recover from the seed experience.  

But I simply cannot deny the damage any longer.

In the context of your question, your use of the word honesty ? well it just seems and odd way to ?soften? the blow of blaming someone for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being lied to and held against their will.  The only way out was to admit and embrace some very vile character flaws I never had until then.  Like lying, like sacrificing, like turning against another to protect myself.  You get my drift?

Don?t get me wrong, I?m no slouch, laying around moaning about how hurt I am or how bad my life has been. To the contrary - I work productively (when I?m not screwing around here but this too, is work), I have my own business, I have two advanced degrees, I am married and I have successfully raised a family and I pay for my kid?s college and my family and friends profess and show me love and kindness daily. I do massive amounts of pro bono work for friends, business associates, family and stangers and I help the elderly at every opportunity.  I have been an award winning athlete, and I have fought hard to protect the under dog and accused  all of my professional career.

And I?ve let people, like you, who I do not personally know, kick my ass, doubt my ?honesty? and   time and time again blame me for the outcome of abuse I never needed to correct a problem I never fucking had.  As I said before, it?s mop up time now. Time to reconcile myself with what I did to me.  It?s okay if you think my perceptions are wrong because now, if I am wrong, it?s only me I?m hurting and no one else. But I seriously doubt that putting this early piece of my life back together, in perspective, and letting myself off the hook is going to hurt me or you.  Really, it can only help me do more of what I do better, for many more people.  

As an aside, everyone who reads this forum might want to read Mark Polonsky's article.  It was an eye-opener for me. Just like John's posts have validated your sense of self, so this article has validated my sense of self because someone else had an experiece that was so shockingly similar.  Taking it all to heart, is a giant leap in the recovery process.  

Peace out.

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