Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Losers!
Anotherscaredmom:
Antigen, I totally agree with you on many many levels. In fact, and I may have mentioned this before, but my focus in my studies is evolutionary psychology and looking at how many things that are labeled as "disorders" are not disorders at all when looked at from another angle. And I also feel that we are a culture of fear right now. If our child doesn't make it into Harvard, we're bad parents. And god forbid that they shoudl smoke a little pot or have a temper tantrum past the age of two. We live in an age where elementary school children are sometimes taken out of the school in handcuffs. We live post-Columbine and post 9/11. It's a shame that the whole society can't just take a step back and look at what we are doing to kids who just need a little more space or a little more encouragement (and I would definitely err on the side of encouragement).
That said, while homeschooling offers a temporary respite from my child's stress and being suspended every other week, it is not a long term solution for multiple reasons. One, I am a single mother and once I graduate in the spring, I will have much less flexibility because I will have to work full time. Ideally I would like to find something flexible or that I can do from home, but realistically that may not happen. Another reason is that my gut has been telling me for a long time there is something going wrong with this kid that is beyond the norm. That is based on a long history of anxiety, OCD behavior, night terrors, trouble sleeping since he was very small. He has certainly had events in his life that might cause this, but therapy has done little to help, and I've always been understanding. Even as a baby, he was very different from other kids.
Let me go off track for a sec. When he was little I didn't mind one little bit that he wasn't like other boys. Just so someone coming in without having my other posts doesn't jump to the conclusion that I'm trying to make a round peg out of a square one.
The fact is, his differences make him suffer in many arenas. But because he's bright, it is assumed by everyone it is just behavior problems. I see now that most of the programs we are talking about here would do little to help with that. But they DO prey on desparate parents. I'm also trying to help him head off problems as an adult. Many of the males on his father's side and my mother's side have had difficulty maintaining jobs and families due to their "behavior". I think a lot of them were in need of earlier intervention.
Whew.
Deborah:
Ginger, thanks for the reminder of how similar RTCs actually are to PSs.
Comparing RTCs to PSs is like comparing Abu Garib to jail.
PSs don?t house kids 24/7 and are not in the business of ?treating? so-called ?mental disorders? (yet, anyway).
Wouldn?t it be more accurate to compare them to other lock-down institutions, say like juvie or jail or other out-patient interventions?
What percentage of kids are dx?d with PTSD or have recurrent nightmares or require therapy upon graduation from public school, juvie, or RTCs?
RTCs are considered and sold as intervention- providing ?therapy? and a controlled environment to keep kids safe.
Where you might see take-downs on a very rare occasion in PSs, it is standard practice in RTCs and probably in juvie/jail (not sure about the latter).
How will you determine
1)the total number of kids who have been through programs
2)the total number of preventable injuries
3)the total number of deaths- some don?t make the papers
4)the total number of cases of abuse
Without that data, you can?t compare them to anything. You obviously know the reality-- ?The data on RTC is hard to come by, I tried to gather some up (# graduated,# abused,# died, # doing well, # doing poorly etc) but no studies have been done.?
So how do you propose to collect the data? That?s the primary reason I see this as a moot issue. A waste of time.
Are you aware of this Risk Assessment of Wilderness Programs?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/opinion/ ... ident.html
Excerpts:
The Hartford Courant, in an excellent series on deaths from restraints, was able to locate only two states that kept figures on fatalities in state-licensed and state-operated programs. [And we know that many (most?) RTCs and Wilderness programs are not licensed.] I had trouble believing this, so checked it out in my own small, responsible and fairly well organized state, Oregon. Sure enough, no one could tell me; the data simply are not centrally reported anywhere in Oregon, nor even tracked by particular agencies for their own clients. Based on the two states (one was New York) that do track fatalities, a statistician hired by the Courant extrapolated an estimate of 50 to 250 residential treatment deaths nationally per year from restraints alone.
For parents and referral sources, perhaps the best risk comparison is with the risks a child runs while living at home. Comparable injury data are hard to come by, but there are good national statistics on fatality rates by age and cause. The overall injury fatality rate for white 15 to 19 year olds is 54.4 per 100,000 population per year, which translates to 0.0015 per 1,000 days, or 1.5 deaths in 1 million days (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 1999.) This means that if you have an average adolescent living in your home, their risk of having a fatal accident is about 80 percent what it would be if they were in a NOLS program or, as well as we can estimate, an OBHIC wilderness treatment program.
Based on OBHIC's 1998 data, if one child were to spend 1,000 days in the field with an OBHIC program, a little less than three years, he or she could expect to be injured a little more than once, be ill enough to have to skip daily activities for a full day a little less than once, and would be taken to a doctor's office or hospital for treatment of an injury or illness a little more than once. [And deaths???] As a parent who has so far survived three adolescents (one to go!), this rate feels to me like about what we've dealt with given healthy, very active kids. From a program perspective, a 50-day program with 7 adolescents in a group could expect a group to have about one injury, one illness, and one evacuation every third 50-day outing.
Here?s a bit of irony. Cooley had three deaths at his facility after this assessment was released, May 2002- Mar 2003.
?One injury, one illness, one evacuation every third 50-day outing?, but 3 deaths in less than twelve months?
There?s also the 2001 ST survey http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56579 that shows they are best at what any lock-down would be successful at.
And this one on PCS http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html that basically states the same.
One big question? if these places are largely 'successful' due to a controlled, structured environment, why can?t parents provide that at home and save their kid the abuses inherent to life in a program?
Here?s one that compares kids who were placed with those who stayed home. http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=903&forum=9 Almost two-thirds (63%) of the children who stayed with their families showed a reduction of clinical symptoms for AD/HD, general anxiety and depression. Only 11% of the children who participated in the residential program showed similar improvement. One year later, children who stayed at home were less anxious, less depressed and showed fewer symptoms of AD/HD than those who had been enrolled in the 5 day a week residential program.
I think the pertinent questions are: What methods are being employed and are they ethical and desirable. Does the ends justify the means? And here are a few articles on the ills of BM.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&0 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#46691 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#79171 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&1 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#49825 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#63727
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53071 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56606 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53849 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#63964
It?s no secret that they need more oversight and monitoring, for what good that might provide. The GAO and Office of Inspector General are in your corner. The issue, why isn?t it being done? And would it actually keep kids safe from potential abuse, injury, death, brainwashing?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#84826 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#120163 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#84989
Deborah:
And while we're comparing...
I like to imagine what our country would be like if all children could have this kind of 'education'
http://www.houstonsudbury.org/about.php#adayinthelife
For those near south Tx, John Taylor Gatto will be giving a lecture there on 14 Jan
Topic: "The Trapped Flea Principle and Other Weapons of Mass Instruction"
Soooo Gatto
TheWho:
--- Quote ---On 2005-12-08 19:47:00, Deborah wrote:
"Ginger, thanks for the reminder of how similar RTCs actually are to PSs.
Comparing RTCs to PSs is like comparing Abu Garib to jail.
PSs don?t house kids 24/7 and are not in the business of ?treating? so-called ?mental disorders? (yet, anyway).
Wouldn?t it be more accurate to compare them to other lock-down institutions, say like juvie or jail or other out-patient interventions?
What percentage of kids are dx?d with PTSD or have recurrent nightmares or require therapy upon graduation from public school, juvie, or RTCs?
RTCs are considered and sold as intervention- providing ?therapy? and a controlled environment to keep kids safe.
Where you might see take-downs on a very rare occasion in PSs, it is standard practice in RTCs and probably in juvie/jail (not sure about the latter).
How will you determine
1)the total number of kids who have been through programs
2)the total number of preventable injuries
3)the total number of deaths- some don?t make the papers
4)the total number of cases of abuse
Without that data, you can?t compare them to anything. You obviously know the reality-- ?The data on RTC is hard to come by, I tried to gather some up (# graduated,# abused,# died, # doing well, # doing poorly etc) but no studies have been done.?
So how do you propose to collect the data? That?s the primary reason I see this as a moot issue. A waste of time.
Are you aware of this Risk Assessment of Wilderness Programs?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/opinion/ ... ident.html
Excerpts:
The Hartford Courant, in an excellent series on deaths from restraints, was able to locate only two states that kept figures on fatalities in state-licensed and state-operated programs. [And we know that many (most?) RTCs and Wilderness programs are not licensed.] I had trouble believing this, so checked it out in my own small, responsible and fairly well organized state, Oregon. Sure enough, no one could tell me; the data simply are not centrally reported anywhere in Oregon, nor even tracked by particular agencies for their own clients. Based on the two states (one was New York) that do track fatalities, a statistician hired by the Courant extrapolated an estimate of 50 to 250 residential treatment deaths nationally per year from restraints alone.
For parents and referral sources, perhaps the best risk comparison is with the risks a child runs while living at home. Comparable injury data are hard to come by, but there are good national statistics on fatality rates by age and cause. The overall injury fatality rate for white 15 to 19 year olds is 54.4 per 100,000 population per year, which translates to 0.0015 per 1,000 days, or 1.5 deaths in 1 million days (National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, 1999.) This means that if you have an average adolescent living in your home, their risk of having a fatal accident is about 80 percent what it would be if they were in a NOLS program or, as well as we can estimate, an OBHIC wilderness treatment program.
Based on OBHIC's 1998 data, if one child were to spend 1,000 days in the field with an OBHIC program, a little less than three years, he or she could expect to be injured a little more than once, be ill enough to have to skip daily activities for a full day a little less than once, and would be taken to a doctor's office or hospital for treatment of an injury or illness a little more than once. [And deaths???] As a parent who has so far survived three adolescents (one to go!), this rate feels to me like about what we've dealt with given healthy, very active kids. From a program perspective, a 50-day program with 7 adolescents in a group could expect a group to have about one injury, one illness, and one evacuation every third 50-day outing.
Here?s a bit of irony. Cooley had three deaths at his facility after this assessment was released, May 2002- Mar 2003.
?One injury, one illness, one evacuation every third 50-day outing?, but 3 deaths in less than twelve months?
There?s also the 2001 ST survey http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56579 that shows they are best at what any lock-down would be successful at.
And this one on PCS http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html that basically states the same.
One big question? if these places are largely 'successful' due to a controlled, structured environment, why can?t parents provide that at home and save their kid the abuses inherent to life in a program?
Here?s one that compares kids who were placed with those who stayed home. http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=903&forum=9 Almost two-thirds (63%) of the children who stayed with their families showed a reduction of clinical symptoms for AD/HD, general anxiety and depression. Only 11% of the children who participated in the residential program showed similar improvement. One year later, children who stayed at home were less anxious, less depressed and showed fewer symptoms of AD/HD than those who had been enrolled in the 5 day a week residential program.
I think the pertinent questions are: What methods are being employed and are they ethical and desirable. Does the ends justify the means? And here are a few articles on the ills of BM.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&0 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#46691 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2745&forum=9
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#79171 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&1 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#49825 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#63727
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53071 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#56606 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#53849 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#63964
It?s no secret that they need more oversight and monitoring, for what good that might provide. The GAO and Office of Inspector General are in your corner. The issue, why isn?t it being done? And would it actually keep kids safe from potential abuse, injury, death, brainwashing?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#84826 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#120163 http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#84989
"
--- End quote ---
Wow - great data research -- So it looks like the kids are no more or less safe in a wilderness program than if they stayed home (as far as injury or death). The RTC do a less effective job at treating disorders AD/HD etc.
So if I had a kid that had a Diagnosed disorder of some type One probably wouldnt want to send them to a RTC.
I think the 3 deaths in 1 year is a bit odd for one facility and if that continued it certainly should be looked at.
Thanks, Deborah, for the links, I will like spending some time going thru them.
Antigen:
Famjaztique,
This is just a hunch, but what do you think of these folks? http://www.sudval.org/
All I know about them is that John Taylor Gatto, with whom I'm quite impressed, has been impressed by them and what they say about themselves in their website. So I don't have any basis to say yes, this is good and safe and just right for your kid (who, of course, I've never met either). But I would be interested in your take on the concept and, if you visit or actually send your son there, how it all turns out.
If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
--- End quote ---
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Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
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