Memories rushing back ... of Paradise Cove, Samoa.

[trnsz]

Funny stumbling upon this forum, totally randomly.  I'm currently 25 and spent time when I was 17 in Paradise Cove, Samoa.  While I might have been an introvert and quite possibly an asshole I never thought I really had any problems, and I faked my way through the program.  I've honestly blocked all the shitty moments from my memory for the most part, but I felt compelled after coming to this forum to post.

I never knew of the investigations into the place, or even that they were featured on TV shows and closed down.  There are some people I remember there, and after some reading, I was shocked to some of them had committed suicide or (unsuprisingly, really) left there worse off than they came in -- and it was my experience a lot of these kids had BIG problems.

After reading a few threads, I'm tempted to find the exact date I was there, but I don't really want to think about that time so much, and at the moment - I want to be anonymous.  

For those that were there with me, you'd probably remember anyway with what I've said and how I (much) write, and knowing I was on Telefaga (sp?) Beach, can't remember the "family".

Anyway, I do remember that the crappy chicken and bread, but I have fond memories of the cocoa-rice.  That shit was great.  I remember how ironic it was that I never experimented with drugs or really did anything really too "bad" until after getting out, too!  I had some great, totally crazy insane times that I'd not recommend to anyone, but I felt like, if at moments notice you can be abducted and sent to Samoa, you better live it up. =)  I got out of that stage just fine without anyone's help.

Anyway, after PC, I disowned my parents for awhile, moved out, grew my hair back out, dated some beautiful ladies, and for the most part lived the good life in the computer industry until 2001 whenl the market crashed.  

After the dot-com bubble and some unflattering jobs, and another small attempt at management, I was in a car accident and I'm now injured, unemployed, broke, but recovering.  Hopefully I'll get some money from a lawsuit against the guy who rear-ended me at 50mph when I stopped at a light.

Anyway, anyone else out from PC have a site or a registry or any details?  Anyway, what a flood of memories.  Watching crappy movies in the schoolhouse (Anaconda comes to mind), cleaning the damn beach all the time, etc.  

Anyone remember the name of that "father" with the tatoo of the marijuana leaf on his arm?  I hate to drop a name, but does anyone know what happened to Travis?  He was from California, can't recall where.  

Also, did anyone else "steal back" all the letters that you sent your friends and your family while you were there?  I did, but in 7+ (already?!) years I've not really read any of them.  Maybe I can recall some names, dates, specific events.

Finally, anyone out there from Florida, or even South Florida?  Please reply!  Sorry for such a giant first post.  When you haven't though about chunk of your life, it's hard to think of what to say!  

PS - Parents!  Programs like these are a sham, and by supporting them, the only thing that I can see coming out of it is resentment.  I've had family which I have no spoken to since 1996 or 1997 and never plan to because of that place.[ This Message was edited by: trnsz on 2005-11-29 02:41 ]

[trnsz]

OK, nobody?? :sad:

Does anyone remember a guy, I think his name was "Jake" and he was from South Florida also, spent time around Deerfield Beach or Boca Raton before going to Samoa.

He seemed to be one of the only people there who had any benefits, at least from what I can remember.  We never really met, but had a few passing encounters before Samoa, at the end of Lox road, out by the everglades.

What about Travis..  I think the last name was Harris.  I'm still sure he was from California - maybe Clovis?  I was actually able to smuggle out his phone number (rolled up on a tiny scrap of paper stuffed inside a pen).  

We had some run plans, and, literally, right before I got home, we were pretty much "caught".  We were using a computer disk to exchange information and they were gonna give us cat 3 theft at a minimum, or so it looked like.  

They were deciding what to do with us when I was told I was going home, but it was looking like that cat 3 and total loss of points.  I was on level 3 probation at the time.  Anyone remember those damn "worksheets"?!

I've lived with tons of guilt all these years.  I was afraid to contact him or his family since I thought it was my fault that he might have had a cat 3 and would have had to spend so much more time there.  It's that kind of stuff that really eats you up over the years.  

Travis, just to let you know, I had your number taped above my phone for nearly two years.  I'm sorry I never called, but I was scared to think about it or be involved.  I've since lost your information. =(

If anyone knows him, make sure he knows, that if something bad did happen, I'm so sorry.  He was really my best friend the whole time I was there, and he was the first guy to run and give me a giant hug when I got to leave.  God, the guilt.  

Also, there was a guy from Alaska in our group.  I'd like to know what happened to him.  

I'd like to throw away the damn yellow lav I've kept all these years, but I can't.

Somebody must remember.[ This Message was edited by: trnsz on 2005-11-28 17:24 ]

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-28 17:15:00, trnsz wrote:

"OK, nobody?? :sad:

Sorry darlin'. You might want to click the "start watching this topic" link at the foot of the page. That way, whenever someone does reply you'll get email.

It kinda chaps my buns hearing about kids getting sent from the Deerfield area. I lived there from around 93 till 2002. Never even knew about WWASP till just a couple of years ago. If only...

Anyway, I hope you find your friends.

The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries

[trnsz]

Thanks for the response (just noticed it after expanding my last post) - I hope I find these guys too.  I'm watching the topic too now.  Thanks.

Is there anything we could do to help?  I see all these posts of suicides, murders, etc.  Is any testimony needed anywhere?  I'll tell the truth about that place, the good and the bad.  Not every moment was horrible.

Reading some of these threads makes me cry, and I didn't even cry on 9/11.  It's been a long time, and I'm not really mad anymore, but there is a lingering sadness. As I've said, I haven't spoken to alot of family since 1996/1997, and I'll never trust them again.  We're not a family anymore.

If it wasn't for the kids there who were my friends, I wouldn't have made it.  I'll forever remember my arrivial, walking down that trail to the beach.  It felt like the walk to an execution.  I was so disoriented and confused.  

I hope someone remembers.  It was the people like those I mentioned here that helped me get through it and they deserve my personal thanks.

PS - did anyone stay with some BIG Samoan guy the first night, before going to the place?  There was other kids with me.  I think his name was Laffy or something.  We rode in the back of his pickup truck.  I'd like to find those kids too, and find out what happened to them.

Sorry I write so much.

[Anonymous]

if only WHAT?  The reason WWASP and other programs continue to be around is obvioulsy after numerous investigations, law suits and allegations, they are found to be legit.

If you don't want to remember Samoa, throw away the lava lava.

Travis is doing great and looks back upon Samoa as an asset to his current life.

South Florida has an attorney and engineer that were in Samoa in 1996 with Chriss and they both look back with thanks.  AMAZING, huh?  They have gone on with their lives in a purposeful manner while you all live here day and night dredging up the past and stupid allegations.  May be, you need to get on with your lives.

[trnsz]

Travis is doing great and looks back upon Samoa as an asset to his current life.

   
Well, I'm glad it helped him, and I'm glad he's doing fine. I'm sure he knows who I am, and he was a fantastic friend to me. I just wanted him to know that. I'm truly glad he was able to benefit, and I feel so much better knowing he's well.

That really helps to close a chapter of my life.

South Florida has an attorney and engineer that were in Samoa in 1996 with Chriss and they both look back with thanks. AMAZING, huh?

   
I don't see the need for the attitude. It's not amazing at all.  I'm also an engineer (by education at least) and was working very successfully as a Unix systems administrator before my car accident. Just don't try to make me a PC/WWASP success story.

They have gone on with their lives in a purposeful manner while you all live here day and night dredging up the past and stupid allegations. May be, you need to get on with your lives.

   
You can feel free to think whatever you want, but you have no right to call me or my thoughts stupid, and I don't think I made any "allegations" in these posts. I was never beaten, raped, or physically abused. Most of the staff that I encountered seemed to be doing what they believed was in our best interest! I know that's all my parents were doing.

I just view all programs of this type, especially with those lame seminars as mental abuse. I'm sure others here might as well.

There were good and bad times there for sure, but looking back to it, I don't see that I had any benefit from it, and it's torn apart my family. I'm much further from them now than I ever was before.

YES! Some people need intervention, and need to be taken out of their environment to get their life straight. I just hope that for kids that are sent to similar programs today, that they are respected and nurtured, and that their treatment is consistent. I don't honestly feel that every child sent to PC receive such. I don't believe that everyone was hurt, not by a long shot, but this kind of treatment isn't right for everyone, and those who run these programs aren't qualified to know! That's my biggest concern.

``PC was closed because U.S. Charge d?Affaires James A. Derrick said that the allegations ?were very serious and were coherent, credible and consistent."`` Argue that with Mr. Derrick, not with me, since I didn't have those experiences.

As for dredging up the past, I feel that the sudden removal from my environment to PC was the hardest thing. Even harder was suddenly leaving all those friends there behind and not knowing what happened to any of them! These abrupt changes disturbed me more than anything I experienced in the program.

Friendships can be very strong, and even more so in a program, and it's very hard to "move on" when you have no idea what happened to your old friends. I want to know. I haven't spoken to anyone about the program for years, but when I found this forum, this sadness creeps up. Nobody should be yanked away those they care about.

Again, I'm very happy that Travis is doing well, and he was able to see his time as a positive experience. Just knowing that helps me look back without animosity.

Tell Travis I'm glad he's OK. Seeing that posted here means the world to me. He'll know who I am. Whatever you think of me now, keep in mind we are all adults, and if I knew what happened to the others in my "family" I wouldn't have these loose ends.

Thanks.

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-28 17:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

Travis is doing great and looks back upon Samoa as an asset to his current life.

Or at least that's what he tells you. So very often, the parents go on believing for years and decades after the kids get it all figured out.

Fresh beauty opens one's eyes wherever it is really seen, but the very abundance and completeness of the common beauty that besets our steps prevents its being absorbed and appreciated. It is a good thing, therefore, to make short excursions now and then to the bottom of the sea among dulse and coral, or up among the clouds on mountain-tops, or in balloons, or even to creep like worms into dark holes and caverns underground, not only to learn something of what is going on in those out-of-the-way places, but to see better what the sun sees on our return to common everyday beauty.
-- John Muir

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-28 17:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"if only WHAT?  The reason WWASP and other programs continue to be around is obvioulsy after numerous investigations, law suits and allegations, they are found to be legit.



If you don't want to remember Samoa, throw away the lava lava.



Travis is doing great and looks back upon Samoa as an asset to his current life.



South Florida has an attorney and engineer that were in Samoa in 1996 with Chriss and they both look back with thanks.  AMAZING, huh?  They have gone on with their lives in a purposeful manner while you all live here day and night dredging up the past and stupid allegations.  May be, you need to get on with your lives."

Would those happen to be Greg Pretzfield? Cuz I was there with him he was douchebag. He drank liquid deodorant and was always getting consequences. Then once his mom became an affiliate of the program he was advanced through the levels with neckbreak speed and then went home. It was more of a political favor. Anyone that was there with him during that era will more than likely agree with me. I'm sure Greg is doing fine now though it's called GROWING UP!!! Something the program can hardly take credit for,If you send a growing teen away to a facility for a couple of years I'm sure they are going to come back more mature. (pssst that's cuz a couple of years have passed.)

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-28 17:37:00, trnsz wrote:

Is there anything we could do to help? I see all these posts of suicides, murders, etc. Is any testimony needed anywhere? I'll tell the truth about that place, the good and the bad. Not every moment was horrible.

Well, none that I know of now. Though I guess you could contact the lawyer who's defending that kid on murder/attmt murder charges.

Hey, write all ya' want. It's my personal opinion that just that, getting the whole story out there is more helpful than anything else.

Of course not every moment was a horror. You do make your own fun. And I'm convinced that most of the people involved in this industry believe, just as faithfully as leechers used to, that what they're doing is helpful, if painful. I just believe they're wrong, that's all. LOL!

But I find it very interesting and very helpful to hear about the differences between various programs. You can take those differences off the table, see what's left and gain a better understanding of how it all works.

My family is divided too. Of course we weren't perfect beforehand. But 12 years involvement w/ one of these programs certainly didn't help and I think it did a lot of harm. My aim in hosting these forums is to encourage dialog and understanding about how all that works.

Word of unsolicited advice, though. If you can find it in your heart to build some sort of relationship w/ your family again, do it. I really don't regret the years of toughlove I missed from my mom. But if I had it to do over again, I would have sucked it up just a bit so that my kids could grow up knowing their cousins.

The most important thing in the programming language is the name. A language will not succeed without a good name. I have recently invented a very good name and now I am looking for a suitable language.  
-- D. E. Knuth, 1967

_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82

[Anonymous]

His name was Lafi Onesemo. He was a part owner of the program as he took care of their need for a Samoan Citizen involved for legal reasons.

And I seriously doubt that the person who said Travis is doing fine even knows the kid. They are probably an irate confused wwaspie tying to stir things up.

[trnsz]

On 2005-11-28 18:23:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-11-28 17:41:00, Anonymous wrote:


Travis is doing great and looks back upon Samoa as an asset to his current life.

Or at least that's what he tells you. So very often, the parents go on believing for years and decades after the kids get it all figured out.

Well, I wish that he would contact me.  The last thing I want to do is dredge up the past.  

For the previous Anonymous poster - You may accuse me of not moving on with my life, but isn't that what the program was supposed to help many of us do?  

The fact that people are here, "whining and bitching" as you may believe, is the best measure of the programs success.  Hundreds of kids may have benefitted, but now at least several dozen are damaged, and they have to work through the additional harm the program caused them before they can go on with life.

When I was a kid, I did some stupid things, but I'd do them again, exactly the same, even knowing what I know now.  It's who I am.  Samoa was time lost from my life.  My whole time there was like a long bad day that didn't end, and when I got home, I went back to my life as it was.  I made it a point not to change myself because of the Samoa experience.  

The only thing that changed when I got back was the lack of support from my family, and that I was older.

BUT - I'm happy with who I am today, and thats what matters.  Even after the car accident and the current unfortunate financial situation. (I've been unable to work for months).

Anyway - I just want to thank Travis for being such a good friend to me.  Travis was (and I'm sure still is) a great guy, and he deserves to hear it.  

At least tell him for me, or give me a way to pass along contact information, e-mail, etc.  I'm only (semi-)anonymous here because I don't want certain people in my own family contacting me.

[trnsz]

Word of unsolicited advice, though. If you can find it in your heart to build some sort of relationship w/ your family again, do it. I really don't regret the years of toughlove I missed from my mom. But if I had it to do over again, I would have sucked it up just a bit so that my kids could grow up knowing their cousins.

It's too bad I really can not.  I thought my family was really the problem before I went to the program, and now I'm sure of it!  

I'm on very good terms with my mother.  She's helping support me while I can't work.  I'm grateful.  She is also well aware of what a scam the program is.  

My father left when I was very young, and was always uninvolved in my life.  I feel that it was his uninvolvement that allowed the rest of my family to send me away.  We do `talk`, but only a "hello" or a card once a year or so.

It's the rest of my family that is the problem, especially my grandparents, who put up the money and were adament about the program.  It wasn't until later, when my mother was in a new relationship (the first in decades since my father left) that she saw their true colors, so to speak.  Let's just say they are racists, bigots, and would die before they admit they were wrong about anything.  They disowned their own daughter for dating somebody who wasn't white.  I feel absolutely nothing for them.

It's sad, even my mother hasn't spoken to them (her parents) in nearly as long, and she's living happily in her new relationship.  Grandparents are probably dead by now.  The rest of the family was on their side through the whole thing, and I have no desire to have any contact with those racists.

Thanks for the advice, however.

Anyway, let's get things back on topic! Hopefully, somebody who knows the people I want to find can let me know how they are or put me in touch so I can pass on some thanks.  I hope the good news about Travis is true.[ This Message was edited by: trnsz on 2005-11-28 19:27 ]

[Antigen]

Aw hell, you got family then! A good mom and a decent step dad are worth a whole tree full of ppl you can't count on. Sorry for being boorish anyway.

Yeah, where are the peoples? You might ask Charlie King, too. He runs The Better Fight website at http://tbfight.com/

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author

[trnsz]

Aw hell, you got family then! A good mom and a decent step dad are worth a whole tree full of ppl you can't count on. Sorry for being boorish anyway.

No problem!  I'm so happy that I was able to get things on a better track with her (no thanks to the program) especially now, unable to work, I'm in a time of need, and nothing is better than family.

I'm also glad resources like this forum exist, because before yesterday I had no clue.  Thanks for the other link too.  Good to see people care enough to offer suggestions.

I'll confess after reading about suicides/murders, I initially had violent thoughts when returning and if it wasn't for having good friends waiting for me when I got back, I'm positive there would have been a massacre.  I really needed nothing more than time to reflect and those feelings went away.  I've never had violent thoughts before that, and never since.

What about kids that go in for years and come back to a "program family" and possibly even a new city and no friends? I can't imagine that.  To the chagrin of my parents, and to my relief, I had the same friends when I got out, and went back to the same life as before.  These guys are still my best friends as an adult today.

If it wasn't for all the friends that offered me their couches and floors and let me live the way I wanted to, and not go home until I was ready, I'm not sure what might have happened.  If you come home, only to view the program as empty propaganda or stolen years, it can feel like the world is breaking down around you.

Sure, I've seen some kids go into programs and come out just fine.  I'm sure nobody is lying when they say that many kids have been helped.  But programs aren't for everyone, just like the Army isn't for everyone, or being a doctor or a lawyer some other profession isn't either.  To change you have to want to change.  I made it a point not to make any big changes in my life, since that would be letting program "manipulation" win.  I'm fine today.  It just took many many years for my mother to see that.  The rest of the family still doesn't, and we don't communicate, simple as that.

Parents need to know there are other ways than these programs, and it isn't always be the parents job decide, as hard as it might be to accept. (IMHO)  Sometimes personality conflicts are unavoidable.  I don't like everyone in my family, and as sad as it might be,  getting along with your parents might be impossible, depending on the personalities of those involved!

There also comes a point where parents sometimes need to let go and let kids grow up to be who they are destined to be, even if it isn't what they wanted for them.  C'mon parents, you might even be able to learn to like them in later years.  Worked for me(tm).

Anyway, a lot of the names being dropped here on the forums are famaliar, and my time did overlap with at least Murphey and Sutton, it seems.  It's unfortunate that I only hear of the people I was there with who are dead or in jail.  So sad!  

I'd love nothing more than to be able to hear some good news from those who I was friends with in Samoa.  I really don't care what they think of the program or WWASPS, I just want to know how they are doing and if they are OK.

Contact me if you can, guys.

[Bola]

hey dude, when you did that trading of the disks thing with the run plans, first thing, they took away our computers. second, they came down and said "clean slate to anyone who wants to confess to any old things they havent gotten caught for. there will be no consequences for anyone who confesses."  then, once they had a big list of offenses, they threw the book at everyone!!! i wound up getting a few cat threes and getting dropped to level 1 from 3. i doubt anyone is still mad from that. many years ago. anyway, you said you were on "telefaga"? did you mean maybe "fagatele"? i was on fagatele, when people got caught with run plans. i think i might know who you are. if you are who i think you are, you were good at chess, but i could be wrong. and yes, cocoa rice was really good when it was made with "kokosamoa", a thick, gritty locally produced cocoa. i agree it sucks the only people who we know about are the ones that make the paper, thats why i have no problem dropping my name out here. Ryan j, if u know me, feel free to write. [email protected]