Author Topic: Men's Machismo Could Be Depression  (Read 1951 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« on: November 25, 2005, 11:47:00 PM »
Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
Buffalo News - November 25, 2005

You might call it melancholy on steroids -- a muscular mixture of fast-driving, heavy drinking, hard-charging cussedness. For perhaps 3 million American men yearly, that?s the plotline for depression.

For almost 24,000 men yearly, the final scene is suicide. Often, there is no cry for help, no river of tears, no abyss of sadness. Just a violent, tragic bolt from the blue.

It is a refrain heard so commonly by psychologists and psychiatrists that it could be the opening to an inside-the- profession joke: "This guy trudges into my office, collapses into the chair and says, ?My wife/partner/friend sent me. She says I?m depressed.? "

The man seldom believes it himself. But as the symptoms are coaxed from the patient -- changes in appetite, fitful sleep, low energy -- resistance often drops away. And a willingness to get treatment can emerge.

In the United States, a man is four times more likely than a woman to commit suicide, according to government statistics. Yet, he is only half as likely to be diagnosed with depression. That stark disconnect underscores a simple fact about depression in men: It often does not look like the mixture of sadness, guilt and withdrawal that dominates diagnostic descriptions and popular perception of the disease. As a result, a man?s depression is often missed -- by loved ones, by physicians, by the sufferer himself.

The costs are steep: in lives hobbled, jobs lost, relationships ruined. Some professionals even tally the toll in prison terms, substance-abuse statistics and shattered communities.

But today the diagnosis of depression is in the midst of a long- overdue makeover, as medical and mental health professionals have come to recognize that in at least half of depressed men, the recognizable litany of symptoms don?t really fit.

Some depressed men may be plagued by impotence and loss of sexual interest, but others may become wildly promiscuous. Many complain of depression?s physical symptoms -- sleep troubles, fatigue, headaches or stomach distress -- without ever discerning their psychological source. Compared to women suffering depression, depressed men are more likely to behave recklessly, drink heavily or take drugs, drive fast or seek out confrontation.

Instead of acting like they are filled with self-doubt, depressed men may bully and bluster and accuse those around them of failing them. For many men, anger -- a masculine emotion that one "manages" rather than succumbs to -- is a mask for deep mental anguish.

"That?s their way of weeping," says psychologist William Pollack, director of the Centers for Men and Young Men at McLean Hospital in suburban Boston and an expert on depression in men.

Pollack and a small but growing number of depression experts say it?s time for the mental health profession to expand its definition of depression so it is better recognized in men. They are pushing for a new category of depression -- Pollack calls it "male-based depression" -- to be incorporated into the new "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual," the bible of the mental health profession that is being updated.

In the worlds of business, sports and politics, a few influential sufferers have broken their silence in recent years, helping to put a male face on the disease.

One of them is business mogul Philip E. Burguieres, once the youngest chief executive of a Fortune 500 company. In the early 1990s, Burguieres says he was an outwardly successful workaholic problem-solver. But he never slept more than a few hours at a time - - and inside, worry gnawed at him so furiously, "I almost wanted to peel my skin off," he says.

In 1991, after wrestling for weeks with a particularly intractable business challenge, Burguieres passed out in his office. A psychiatrist bluntly told him he was clinically depressed and prescribed medication, psychotherapy and participation in a mental health support group. Burguieres dismissed the recommendations out of hand.

By 1996, his depression was back with a vengeance, and at age 53 he bowed out as chief executive of an energy services company, citing "health reasons." For almost a year before doing so, he had fantasized obsessively about committing suicide.

But "almost to the day I committed myself, I could fake it," says Burguieres. "I could put on my blue suit and my red tie and look good for a couple of hours, then come home and collapse."

In recent years, Burguieres, now owner of the NFL?s Houston Texans, has spoken to many business groups about his depression. And so many fellow businessmen have confided their own, similar stories that Burguieres believes the disease is "chronic and widespread in the executive office," and growing harder to ignore.

Even physicians and mental health professionals who have come to recognize depression?s unexpected manifestations in men are careful to avoid what psychologist Pollack calls "the D-word" when they first suspect it. Kevin Brown, a Los Angeles family physician, says that with men in general -- and his predominantly black and Hispanic patients in particular -- he reaches for other words to open a conversation about depression.

"I tend to use the words ?under stress? more often than not, and people can definitely relate to that," Brown says. A referral to a mental health counselor or a psychological support group "is definitely almost a no-no," he says, because "there?s usually more machismo or bravado about men?s ability to handle whatever emotional problems they might have."

Brown says that in men who do not appear to have reached a state of crisis, he may first prescribe an antidepressant. Only after a few follow-up visits, when he has gained a patient?s trust, would he suggest counseling. Brown, who is black, suspects that among males in the population he serves, depression is quite common and largely unrecognized. Most of it, he suspects, plays itself out on the streets, in gangs and behind the tinted windows of cars. "I can only guess the numbers of those who do not get help, and I think we see the effects of this in the criminal justice system," he says.
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Offline Antigen

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2005, 10:48:00 AM »
Or maybe, since there are so many of them, this is a normal response to a fucked up society. Sounds a lot like mission creep to me.  What is it that men in our society are not getting?

Let's start w/ Peter Rabbit.

That's all marijuana is, after all. It's just a plant, a common and easily grown one at that. In many cultures, its consumption was lawful for millennia. And in all that time, the bond between thugs, mayhem, murder and marijuana that we see today did not exist.

http://www.mapinc.org/author/Dan+Gardner' target='_new'>Dan Gardner, CanWest News Service



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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2005, 10:27:00 AM »
Great question!

I don't have an answer but I do want
to point out that a couple of days
ago MSNBC has a program on called
"lock up" which detailed current
prison theory and conditions.

It is so obvious that locking people
up is not a deterrent. It was really
sickening to watch the revolving
door of recidivism.

Now when I read in the paper about
some goofball committing a crime
and getting sentenced I just think
to myself there must be a better way ...

Perhaps as a society we would be
better off figuring out your question:

"What is it that men in our society are not getting?"

Rather than building more prisons.
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Offline Antigen

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2005, 11:26:00 AM »
Well, as far as that goes, I think Judge Jim Gray nailed it; we should reserve our jails and prisons for people we're afraid of, not people we're just mad at. I think that's part of it. But the prison issue's got more to do w/ race than gender.

For the most part we inherit our opinions. We are the heirs of habits and mental customs. Our beliefs, like the fashion of our garments, depend on where we were born. We are molded and fashioned by our surroundings.
--Environment is a sculptor -- a painter.

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2005, 11:40:00 AM »
Expanding the definition = expanding the market?
From the 'financially successful workaholic' to the 'economically oppressed gang member'.

GM's cutting 30,000 jobs. Ford another 4,000.
Over 3.3 million jobs lost during Bush administration.
34.6 million living in poverty.
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/economy/

Are we not 'looking for cures in all the wrong places'?
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Offline Antigen

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2005, 12:07:00 PM »
I do believe! Not only that, but have you ever noticed a definite anti-boy culture in our school systems? I mean, it was sort of obvious when I was a kid. Now? Any sort of behavior that boys tend to do more than girls falls under zero tolerance and is a fast track to all kinds of great labels, dx, sanctions and "treatments".

When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2005, 12:09:00 PM »
Excellent observation!
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Offline Anonymous

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2005, 10:42:00 PM »
Glad I found this posting.  I am dealing with an angry and "depressed" young man.  He is my son.  His father was the same.  After having dealt with both of them for so long, I am starting to realize how intolerant our society is over men's reactions to a high stress culture.  It is really sad.  

I am currently a student in Psych and neuroscience and I have changed my path from research to public policy.  What I see in our culture disturbs me greatly.  I agree wholeheartedly that there seems to be something wrong with the culture.  If so many people are having to be medicated, should we still be looking at individuals?  All of our responses, the so-called disorders of depression, anger/aggression, even schizophrenia, are all natural biological responses to adverse conditions.  These "disorders" are the signals, just like pain, that tell us something is wrong and we should be moving away from it.  

This may not seem related, but I read a great study on post-partum depression that looked at it as a natural response to environmental conditions.  When you look at it from the animal model, and we are animals after all, a mother will not care for offspring if the environmental cues say that the chances of survival are low.  So in humans, post-partum depression is the response that many women have to adverse conditions surrounding the birth.  It could be an unhappy marriage, unresolved psychological scars, low socio-economic status and so on.   In the wild, this mother would be "wired" to abandon her young.  The depression keeps the mother from bonding with the off-spring.  In the human model,  culturally it is not allowed to abandon our young (even though some women do anyway), but the biology is still instructing the woman to do so causing a disconnect between the biology and the society, causing a more long term depression.  I'm not advocating that women shoudl abandon their babies, but we could stop looking at it as a disorder of the person, and more a disorder of the circumstances and treat that instead.  

Anyway, sorry to be long-winded.  Just want to let you know I'm intending to fight the good fight!
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Offline Anonymous

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2005, 06:20:00 PM »
I think your assumptions are valid.

Except, they can not be considered
in an isolated vacuum.

By that I mean, say 200 years ago,
the life span was 25 or 30 years old.

Now it is about an average of 80 years.

So, although I believe you have a valid
assessment, it must be taken into context
that no society has every rejected progress
and gone back to the ole ways.

I hope you are one of the mental health workers
who finds solutions to these problems utilizing
all available resources, and not eliminating
any do to bias.

Percentage wise, most likely these horrific cases
such as post partum depression murder cases, are
down from baselines taken years ago.

No matter what the 24 hour newsies hype, we have
a very easy life compared to any point in history,
and each year it gets easier.

So solutions to mental health problems must be
accomplished not in a context of being critical
of any one issue, but rather as a solution given
today's criteria.

---

Pick up an old book. You may be as surprised
as I am how much meloncholia is mentioned.

Pick up any of todays best sellers and mental
illness is not mentioned as much.

This of course is just my personal observation
and is no way scientific.
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Offline Deborah

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2005, 06:37:00 PM »
Bingo!!
Glad to know another rational/aware person is going into the industry with a glimpse of reality!! I think all ?mental illness?- except cases in which there is actual brain damage- is a product of our environment/culture.

We should follow Buhtan and develop GNH (Gross Nat?l Happiness) vs GNP, where happiness is more important than profit.

Why is it standard procedure to give poor people drugs for depression? Because it?s easier than effecting change in terms of pro-life social policies. Good luck to you. I hope you have a long productive career in terms of policy change.

You wrote:
?a mother will not care for offspring if the environmental cues say that the chances of survival are low.

I think the implications of this phenomenon exceed post partum depression.

Here?s the real irony, as I see it. Just like in the animal model, I think it is hard for people to think well about (bond with) the working class/working poor/poor, so they are ?abandoned?- viewed as disposable.  When truth be known, society would fall apart without their contributions. They are the worker bees who keep things running and get things done.

I think this phenomenon is also what makes it easier for parents to abandon their kids to programs.
In addition to ?unhappy marriage, unresolved psychological scars, low socio-economic status? humans now live with too much medical intervention, lack of useful parenting knowledge, sickly bottle-fed babies, toxic immunizations and drugs, food devoid of nutrition due to unsustainable farming practices, environmental toxins, and on and on and on. We are so far away from a natural state of being, it?s no wonder the majority of people are experiencing ?natural biological responses to adverse conditions?. The tragedy is that they don't recognize it. Their conditioning is such that 'all is well' and their distress is a genetic malfunction.

I really appreciated this comment:
In the human model, culturally it is not allowed to abandon our young (even though some women do anyway), but the biology is still instructing the woman to do so causing a disconnect between the biology and the society, causing a more long term depression.

This also is not specific to ppd and could be applied to many situations in society. The first that comes to mind is public schooling. Nothing about it is inherently useful to humans. Everything inside the child is screaming to run, play, explore, learn through living and they are forced to sit still and listen to boring lectures day in and day out. Big disconnect. Biology (I prefer Inherent Nature) in conflict with Irrational Social Demands. Makes people ?crazy?!!!

I personally believe those to be the most severely mentally distressed are those who no longer have a reaction!!! And go about trying to ?fix? or ?help? others to accept the craziness as normal.

You might enjoy this:
Some children and their parents may well feel anxious and unhappy, and may interpret their experiences through a psycho-medical framework. However, it could be argued that this is more to do with a rise in mental health professionals and campaign groups than to a rise in mental illness. If people are encouraged to view themselves as fragile, ill and in need of professional help, it is perhaps no surprise that some individuals internalise such views.
Article here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 320#152639
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Offline SHH Anon Classics

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Men's Machismo Could Be Depression
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2005, 07:39:00 PM »
I dont agree at all with your theory on post partum depression. If that was true, then only poor, stressed out, economically challenged women in impoverished countries would have it. I have a friend, Let's call her J. Well J, had 2 lovely children who were 12 and 9. She was a stay at home mom, with a husband in middle management, middle class, nice middle class home, 2 cars, 2 cats, you get the idea. Happily married 15 yrs, etc. Well they wanted a third baby to round out things. No pregnancy problems, labor was normal, baby was normal. Everything was fine, except, she became HORRIBLY depressed about a month after the baby came. This was a woman who never felt like she couldnt tackle something and solve it and without any problems whatsoever, felt horrible about herself as a mother, felt the baby didnt love her, felt like crying every day, and did, for months. She tried diets, vitamin supplements, psychiatrists, everything. Until, she went on medication, she was a mess literally. Her baby is now 3 1/2 and she is wonderful. So I dont agree that post partum depression has anything at all to do with animal instinct.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2005, 09:48:00 PM »
I think you may have focused on one of the adverse conditions, economics. What about unresolved psychological scars? What about the possibility that after birthing child number THREE out of some unconscious decision to 'round things out', she found she wasn't up to the responsibiilty. Eight years of 'feedom' and then back to 24/7 intensive care. That can be a harsh jolt of reality, particularly if she didn't have help and support. She may not have even been aware of those feelings. Many a MC mom is on some drug to enable her to keep up the appearance that all is well. The expectations of the MC can be extremely distressing.

I don't mean to suggest that this was the case with your friend. It's just one example of what could've been underlying her feelings of sadness?, grief?, disappointment? Is she still taking the drug?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2005, 10:10:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-12-07 15:37:00, Deborah wrote:

"

I think all ?mental illness?- except cases in which there is actual brain damage- is a product of our environment/culture.

"


This is a quote from an ignorant biased single issue
hate and influence peddler.

Read about mental illness, experience mental illness
and help the mentally ill before you make such absolute statements of this cavalier nature.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2005, 10:11:00 AM »
Quote
Is she still taking the drug? "


Does this question indicate that you
are pissed off that she is still on
medication, even though she is doing
great?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2005, 10:39:00 AM »
Nope, just curious if it was a temporary thing or if 3.5 years later she still takes drugs for ppd.
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