Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Straight, Inc. and Derivatives
Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida
Antigen:
Dear old uncle Joe Ya' know, this reminds me of the sad tale of my dearly departed great uncle Joe. It was just prior to prohibition and he had a job cleaning up at the brewery. One day, he fell into a full beer vat. Uncle Jim and Uncle Thom were there. They dove in and tried to fish him out, but he fought `em off and subsequently drowned.
Blopa, I heard it through the grape vine that you have far more concrete evidence of abuse than just the Program's lineage. If you fail to protect your son at this point, there's no going back. He may forgive you one day, but he'll never ever trust you again.
Blopa:
Re: Dear old uncle Joe Thank you very much all for your interest in helping my son and I. I am not in anyway downplaying what you been through (and still are) and I know you do not have any secret agenda as you have nothing to win or lose by sharing on your traumatic experience. After clearly establishing that I will discuss the present situation that started this Topic. The first thing that comes to mind is that several of the most openly troubling practices of Straight are absent on the practice at GT: special diet, food and sleep deprivation, isolation (not access to Children and Family or police by phone), kids locked with key on bedrooms. Those I know to be true as I saw first hand while fostering out (visiting host family houses with the kids there). Other things I was told by kids and parents is that they do not sit on kids, they are never locked alone, they are not insulted, spited at or humiliated screaming at their faces, etc.
Another issue, central to the big picture, is the brain washing. In principle, I am personally against all forms of brain washing. The caveat is that my son (and probably most people with self-destructive behavior) have already been brain washed and that is why they are actively seeking to kill themselves (and others) by abusing drugs, breathing AC gases (freon?) and other toxics that are known to destroy brain cells and terminate their lives at different paces. Or by driving at very fast speed while high or drunk, etc.
So the starting point of this treatment is not a happy Kids that is having a safe life. We started with a kid that was way on his way to kill himself and maybe others. We did not chose to disrupt a life, our aim is to get him to stop killing himself. Now, it is not an easy job to have someone abandon his most precious and valued beliefs: the entire drug culture, self mutilation and destruction, complete contempt for all the rules (right or wrong) that make his existence in the community possible, his absolute repudiation for any advice or even possibility of having a normal life (work, earn a living, stay sober and do whatever you chose to do with your life within the boundaries of the law).
How do you change all that without washing the Kid's mind? I am speaking from my mind and for myself as no one in any of the treatment centers we visited (including GT) ever admitting to resorting to brain washing. But I think that some sort of serious re-programming of the mind (aka brain washing) would have to take place to make such a radical change in someone concepts, thinking process, feeling process, etc. I know that simply talking to that person does not suffice. We tried that, we used psychologists, psychiatrists, medication, outpatient therapy, church, gifts, contracts, treats, you names. While doing all these, our son kept running in the opposite direction at an increased speed, doing more drugs, hanging out with very dangerous characters, getting in fights, cursing and screaming at us, breaking things, closing his mind more and more.
I do not think that we could just sit on the side hoping that he will get better by himself, as he was going to kill himself, possible others including us. It was impossible to talk with him about anything. He was deeply sad, even suicidal. He was stealing from us. This is the scene in most homes of troubled teenagers of the other parents we spoke with. So, with all honesty, what is there to do for a parent in this predicament? Is easy to blame the medicine at hand, but is there any other REALISTIC medicine? As ugly as it sounds, I think that you have to de-program and re-program the patient's mind to get them out of that rut. It sounds horrible, but what is the REALISTIC alternative. The person in on an accelerated path of self-destruction as thousands do die every year from this disease, drug abuse, suicide, etc. Talking won't do it since he would not listen, therapy as outpatient did not work either. Eckerd Youth Alternatives worked, but for a year or so. COPAC threw him out. La Amistad was a mad-house that he hated. South Miami Drug Rehab Center could not work with him. What else to try? Do I give up on him? And he is not seating still waiting for us to find a good solution, he is trying to kill himself with the drug use, etc. while we think and consider the alternatives. What will you do in such a case?
He will have to unlearn a lot of crap he learned, change his taste in music, friends, thought process, motivation, decency, etc. How in the world do you achieve all that?
I wish there was a pill he could take and get well, a book he could read or some magic words that someone can spell and make such fundamental changes as he needs to make to stay alive. Short of that, I think that some serious reprogramming of the mind would have to take place and I am surely no expert to judge and decide what it would entail. In the meantime I am glad he is safe and seems to be making progress.
Worse case, if he survives this treatment and will take him (as you say) 15 years to get right again, that implies that we will be alive 15 years from now, and that is good news. It certainly beats the alternative.
Those are my considerations at this time.
Regarding allegations of abuse (I just read your posting), no, I do not have anything more than allegations and it will be very easy to convince me otherwise: I you know any case that resulted on a conviction against GT, and you care to, please give me the case number, decision on the case, judge,etc. I will research such case/cases. So far I found none.
Thanks again. Edited by: Blopa at: 10/22/01 1:08:34 pm
ramprato:
You just don't get it do ya??....... Those people that run GT prey on people like you. It's not because you're such a nice guy, it's not because they have a genuine concern for your kid, You have a couple of dollars in the bank and that' all they want, MONEY plain and simple. Look around the room at GT, and what do you see, you don't see kids from the SLUMS do you??
The majority of us that post here and on the other sites came from upper middle income backgrounds, that's who these Straight-like places target people with MONEY.
Here's a quote from you I found particularly special:
"I think that some sort of serious re-programming of the mind (aka brain washing) would have to take place to make such a radical change in someoneâ??s concepts, thinking process, feeling process, etc."
That to me that is plain disgusting, to read such garbage. Oh yes, it's OK as long as it's happening to somebody else and not yourself, hell, for that matter, it's OK even if it's your own kid, just throw him into the hands of complete strangers you've never met before and walk away??,well think again ace. Your child is your most precious resource and YOU have been given a RARE opportunity, an opportunity that most of our parents 20 years ago would of begged to have if it were available to them, a chance to talk to 20 year survivors of MIND RAPE MILLS such as GT who have given their very heart and sole to you about the aftereffects of untold pain caused by brainwashing. People like us who have had time to research these sickos, know their game, and all the steps they took along the way for some 30 years to perfect their scam on people like you, it amazes the @#%$ right out of me that you would trust them over us, I'm shaking my head right now in complete disbelief. I know guys, I shouldn't be, I realize we've only been exposing these bastards for a year or so now.
Just taking a stab here, did you ever read up on communist re-education camps?? They use the same sick MIND RAPING tactics in those camps, where do you think the brainwashing kids concept was "barrowed" from. I'm sure were also soon going to find out that this is how the kids in poor middle eastern families are recruited and "educated" to hate Americans, it's just a matter of time before this all comes out and makes the headlines, I'm sure then that you won't mind being the poster-dad advocating brainwashing centers for anything YOU perceive wrong with kids. Did YOU ever go through adolescence, were you ever defiant to your parents, EVER?? How did they correct you? Did they entrust you to strangers?, careful now, your halo is slipping.
Here's a good one from you:
"Worse case, if he survives this treatment and will take him (as you say) 15 years to get â??rightâ?? again, that implies that we will be alive 15 years from now, and that is good news. It certainly beats the alternative."
I think if I were able to turn back the clock, I would of rather find another way of dealing with whatever issues there were at the time concerning my adolescence. Sure, to the outside world, I am a "success", but why the hell is it that when the internet was introduced to this world did I find myself on it advocating the humane treatment of kids and exposing sick MIND RAPE MILLS such as YOUR kid is in??? hmmm? Must be for my health, my emotional health.
Now try to remember these next words I ought to send a recommendation to the AD Council for a public service announcement:
A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO RAPE
Blopa:
Re: You just don't get it do ya??....... Ken, I do not doubt that what you describe is true to the program you 'attended' (Straight), but I clearly established some differences between what you and others describe as taking place in Straight that DOES NOT match what goes on on GT.
Do you know what goes on on GT?
You keep insisting (and you are right) of how horrible the practices of the place you know, are. But I am not talking about that place, since I have no direct knowledge of anything they did there. I am not talking about Straight.
I do see similarities. I also see fundamental differences precisely about the things I see you 'complaint' the most. Again, they do not lock people in isolation (alone or in groups), they do not sit on people hurting them, do do not deny anyone the use of the phone to call for help, they do not put them in ridiculous diets, they do not deprive them of food or sleep. All this differences I know first hand and that is why I can talk about it. They don't mean anything to you?
BTW you still do not offer an alternative treatement.
Ken, I am not interested in winning any argument with you, prove you wrong, etc. as I understand you are only trying to help me and my kid. It just surprises me that you refer to GT as if was a copy of Straight. You know Straight, you do not not GT and you ignore the differences I point out to you.
Antigen:
Psychic murder That's how the thought reform process is described by some scholars. And that's what it feels like. Your previous post said it all and I was horrified by the implications of it.
You know they're brainwashing your son. Did you know they're brainwashing you more? Think for a minute. All of the behaviors you describe as suicidal are, though troubleing, within the range of normal teen rebellion. Driving fast? That's a thrill for some kids, especially boys. Using illicit drugs? 70% of the adult population, dear, including your medical care professionals, your legal people, teachers, bus drivers, cops... you name it. Are they all suicidal? Do they all need to be thought reformed?
Deliberately carving on one's skin is NOT typical teen rebellion. Psyche guidelines usually associate sexual trauma with self mutilation.
Again, was he carving before you put him in the Program?
You keep asking for absolute proof of certain specific methods of abuse, otherwise you will not act to protect your son. If I found out that a neighbor might be a child abuser, I would FIRST eliminate any chance of their having access to my kids and then further investigate. Mr., your response is just really bizarre for a parent. I'm not surprised, though. My own parents and plenty of others walked the same path.
Once again, let me remind you that in the State of Florida, if you suspect child abuse you have a legal obligation to report it or at least to intervene on behalf of the child. A few years ago, a mother went to prison on a homocide charge because she forced her teenaged daughter to work in a strip club. The girl was so humiliated by the experience that she killed herself. At this point, you probably don't care enough about your son to intervene on his behalf. But you might want to think carefully about any criminal investigations that might arise should it turn out that they are hurting children there at GT.
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