Mormon Man Jumped From Truck Following Argument

[BuzzKill]

Well, I guess I would say the suicide bombers are brainwashed and indoctrinated - which can make them susceptible to doing crazy things - like strap on explosives and walk into a crowd and self detonate. Yes, this seems crazy, but it isn't mental illness.

With the "jumper" in this story -  he may also have been brain washed and indoctrinated - but I am of the opinion he was also a mental patient of some sort, and that this has nothing to do with his faith. In other words - this man would have done the same, had he been raised in most any religion, or none.

The bomber acts as a result of years (or at least months) of indoctrination. Nothing about their actions are impulsive. They are much thought out and done very deliberately.

The jumper acted in a totally impulsive way - with little or no thought about actions and consequences. This is a hallmark of mental illness.

His Faith seems to be a factor, partly b/c he was complaining about cursing; and partly just b/c his faith is known for some pretty controlling and rigid charters.

But I think he might have done the same, if for instance, his brother had been singing a song he didn't like; or eating a doughnut; or driving to slow/fast - Most anything at all might have been a trigger.

Now to be clear - I AM only theorizing. I don't know what was in the man's head - and you might be right. I base my opinion on others I have known, who on occasion, opened the door and stepped out of moving cars. Faith had nothing to do with it.

Of corse - it could also be a combination of the two factors.
I have read several articles about how stressful the Mormon mission trips can be. Stress can/will make any kind of un-treated mental disorder worse - and so there may be a connection between his faith and his impulsive deadly action, and we are both of us right.

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-16 13:39:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"Well, I guess I would say the suicide bombers are brainwashed and indoctrinated - which can make them susceptible to doing crazy things - like strap on explosives and walk into a crowd and self detonate. Yes, this seems crazy, but it isn't mental illness.

 :question:  :question:  :question:

Then what is mental illness?

With the "jumper" in this story -  he may also have been brain washed and indoctrinated - but I am of the opinion he was also a mental patient of some sort, and that this has nothing to do with his faith.

Why do you think that? Hadn't he just gotten back from his mission?

In other words - this man would have done the same, had he been raised in most any religion, or none.

Right, it's not the particular religion. It's the difference between a philisophical fondness for a particular theology and fanaticizm.

The bomber acts as a result of years (or at least months) of indoctrination. Nothing about their actions are impulsive. They are much thought out and done very deliberately.

And that makes them more sane than the other guy? By what reason?

The jumper acted in a totally impulsive way - with little or no thought about actions and consequences. This is a hallmark of mental illness.

Really! You think it's more sane if you take your time, plan it out, think about it and then go through with it?

I base my opinion on others I have known, who on occasion, opened the door and stepped out of moving cars. Faith had nothing to do with it.

Wait, Karen... you think that because you knew a diagnosed person who jumped out of a car that all everyone who jums out of a moving car must fit the same dx?

Of corse - it could also be a combination of the two factors.

I have read several articles about how stressful the Mormon mission trips can be. Stress can/will make any kind of un-treated mental disorder worse - and so there may be a connection between his faith and his impulsive deadly action, and we are both of us right. "

Yeah, very similar to any other high pressure cult. Like, say, for instance the WWASP programs or the Straight/KHK style indoctrination centers. And guess what? That sort and intensity of stress can drive perfectly normal people around the bend, too.

Infidel: In New York, one who does not believe in the Christian religion; in Constantinople, one who does.
--Ambrose Bierce

[BuzzKill]

//That sort and intensity of stress can drive perfectly normal people around the bend, too. //

Oh yes, I know. Thats the point really.

I guess one way to explain my hair splitting, is that the mental patient will be ill, no matter what faith they belong to, or what their life circumstance might be; where as the rabid, murdering bomber, takes some effort to create. They must be made that way; but the mental patient is that way  (Ill - not necessarily violent or suicidal)

One is wildly irrational and extremely impulsive with zero or little self control.
The other wildly irrational and coldly calculating, with complete self control.

Its the cold calculation and control that exempts them from being mentally ill; altho by our societal standards, they are certainly "crazy".

Of corse there are some personality disorders that are indeed mental illnesses, that a person can have and be very cold, calculating, organized and dangerous - but these disorders are not recognized as mental illness from a legal stand point. But then again, some of the most disorganized and psychotic of persons don't meet the legal test for "insane" in some states.

You have cases like Andera Yates, and Diana Dial (I think is her name) who were both floridly psychotic - and very organized in their crimes.

So - maybe the bomber in your scenario is suffering from a kind of induced psychosis.

//Wait, Karen... you think that because you knew a diagnosed person who jumped out of a car that all everyone who jumps out of a moving car must fit the same dx? //

No - not necessarily - but its not like jumping out of moving cars is a common thing. When it does happen, it seems reasonable to suspect a common cause. However - I did admit it is just a theory, based on my limited experience.

[Leaga]

He probably never thought he was gonna die. He was just taking the high road and riding his high horse. In that religion utter contempt for others not following the guidelines (ie swearing)is not only normal but highly applauded.    Had he survived I'm sure the next time he was to speak in church he would refer to this story with a big pat on the back for himself for being so diligent and dedicated on his quest to abolish all the evil influences of satan.

[Antigen]

Oh yeah. My mother once utterly failed to react to a car wreck right in front of her. The two cars smashed into each other then bounced apart just enough and just in time to let her car pass w/o hitting either one. She and my brother were damned lucky, right? Wrong! Not according to my mom. See, according to her, it's God's will that his followers be completely oblivious to any threat, to not think or react, but to just wander blitely through life expecting God to suspend some of his favorite laws of physics on their behalf.

She did the right thing, thanked God for fucking up those other people in order to look after his own faithful child and had a very pleasant weekend.

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.
--Abraham Lincoln, U.S. President