Radio Inside Scoop

[Helena Handbasket]

This is a LIFE - specific response to Sue, who wrote:

There MAY have been a couple isolated boarder-line "abuse" situations at one or 2 of these programs, but it's a CROCK if you believe this (what these callers said) went on for YEARS and YEARS, daily at these programs.
I was in LIFE and NEVER witnessed what was said here. Most of these callers were TROUBLED teens, with horrible attitudes, arrest records, drop outs from school and their parents emrolled them in HEAVEY, long term treatment. It's not SUMMER CAMP. They were made to think about their attitudes, actions, and wreckless ways. Who wants to do that?!? There were lots of rules, and guidelines to follow. It WAS strict. But these abuse reports are almost laughable. They never completed their treatment/counseling, and now need to BLAME someone/something on their current failures. It's an EASY target.
I graduated the LIFE program, learned how to DEAL with reality instead of get into drugs and trouble, and improved my self-esteem tremendously. I made life-ling friends there, whom I remain friends with today (20 yrs later). I have NO regrets about being there, as it helped me and SO MANY others. I appreciate that my folks didn't sit by and watch me get worse. They cared enough to TO DO something, before it was too late.
I believe many of these "survivors" (I have trouble not laughing at this term) would love to somehow get $ out of all this. It's really sad that this is their plight SO MANY years later.

My response, as posted on http://radioinsidescoop.com/mt-posts-ar ... 00506.html

Ginger mentioned that LIFE wasn't as violent as Straight, and I tend to agree.  Many of the abuses that I've heard committed at Straight, I did not witness at LIFE.  However, I did personally witness physical abuse, denial of bathroom priveleges, and denial of privacy.  I personally was forced to sleep with my legs intertwined with my oldcomer - something that comes very close to sexual impropriety.

However, I will ask Sue - and anyone else who cares to answer - how you consider this okay?  How do you consider slapping kids, sitting on them, pulling their hair, forcibly "motiviating" (arm flapping) them, and accusing them (of drug use) without proof - helpful?

Sue, if you gave your kids this "treatment", you'd be up on abuse charges in no time flat, and you know it.  

I don't know what your agenda is.  Most of ours is to simply stop abuse.  What is your problem with that?[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-11-13 19:29 ]

[TimeBomb]

These parrots are making me tired.

Well, I motivated so hard that I got broken blood vessels in my fingers, and tennis elbows. Then, when I could barely motivate any more, I was stood up and confronted for not motivating hard enough. Yeah, that was real helpful.

Then, there was the time I was in a "bench restraint" for a couple of hours. The 2 guys holding my arms put such pressure (trying to make my elbow joint go the wrong way) that I couldn't even move my arms for maybe an hour afterward. It was incredibly painful too. No, that wasn't torture.

And then there was the hair pulling and slapping from Petermann. And the kidnapping she helped plan, when a fat guy sat on my back until I almost passed out, and told me if I pulled anything, he would sit on me the whole way to Mississippi (Bethel). Yes, death threats are very constructive ways to deal with kids.

But I'm sure you never witnessed anything like that, did you Sue?

[Anonymous]

Helen Petermann has evil powers, but I considered the LIFE program quite silly.I was there in 1982. Nothing like STRAIGHT INC.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-13 21:22:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Helen Petermann has evil powers, but I considered the LIFE program quite silly.I was there in 1982. Nothing like STRAIGHT INC. "

  lol

  LIFE wasn't fun, but it wasn't abusive to any extreme.  You didn't HAVE to motivate. So if you broke blood vessels doing it, own up to it pal.

[Helena Handbasket]

  LIFE wasn't fun, but it wasn't abusive to any extreme.  You didn't HAVE to motivate. So if you broke blood vessels doing it, own up to it pal."

 :eek: Didn't have to motivate?  Are we talking about the same program?  Y'know, the one across from the Tervis Tumbler factory?  The one headed up by Petermann?  The one where if you didn't flap your arms, they were flapped for you??

Oh sure... you could resist that as well.  But how would you "make your phase"? Hmmm?

[TimeBomb]

On 2005-11-14 06:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"LIFE wasn't fun, but it wasn't abusive to any extreme.  You didn't HAVE to motivate. So if you broke blood vessels doing it, own up to it pal."

You're right. You didn't *have* to do anything. Nah, I think my energy was best spent kicking and screaming. It got me out of that torture chamber a lot faster.

And it only got me sat on because I didn't fight hard enough. If I would have kicked in Peterman's skull, the worst thing that could have happened was that I would have wound up in a nice SAFE jail cell.[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2005-11-14 09:21 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-14 08:07:00, TimeBomb wrote:

"

On 2005-11-14 06:05:00, Anonymous wrote:



"LIFE wasn't fun, but it wasn't abusive to any extreme.  You didn't HAVE to motivate. So if you broke blood vessels doing it, own up to it pal."

You're right. You didn't *have* to do anything. Nah, I think my energy was best spent kicking and screaming. It got me out of that torture chamber a lot faster.



And it only got me sat on because I didn't fight hard enough. If I would have kicked in Peterman's skull, the worst thing that could have happened was that I would have wound up in a nice SAFE jail cell.[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2005-11-14 09:21 ]"

  And didn't you opt for jail later in life, Shane?  What kind of record do you have (at this point)?

[TimeBomb]

On 2005-11-14 18:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"And didn't you opt for jail later in life, Shane?  What kind of record do you have (at this point)?"

Let's see... multiple counts of kidnapping, torture, false imprisonment, child abuse...

No, wait, that's what *some* people would have if the law was actually enforced.

And since you asked, I have never been convicted of ANYTHING in my entire life. As a matter of fact, I've only had one traffic ticket (non-moving) in the last 13 years. My pilots license is clean too. But I'm not sure what that has to do with gulags anyway.

[ This Message was edited by: TimeBomb on 2005-11-14 22:29 ]

[Helena Handbasket]

"And didn't you opt for jail later in life, Shane?  What kind of record do you have (at this point)?"

Red Herrings and Ad Hominem attacks seem to two favorite rebuttal tools of the supporters.

Why can't you just answer the question?

[Anonymous]

The reason I posted that I never endured nor witnessed abuse at LIFE is simply to state the truth. WHY would I NOT jump in with you all if I did?!?   Many of you state that "these programs" are harmful and abusive to all , when that was NOT my experience at ALL (nor was it for hundreds of others I witnessed through my time there).  
  Obviously this really bothers you as it does NOT support your claims.  I won't sit back and say nothing when I know different. That's what my problem is with you making ACROSS THE BOARD claims on all teen drug programs.  It seems easy to just JOIN THE GANG here and say, "Oh Yea , I was abused too!  I ate PBJ sandwiches, and couldn't watch TV for months! TORTUROUS." But I will not.  
  Seems that many of you may have displaced anger.  How did you GET to these programs? A parent?  Maybe that's who your issues are with?
  You have SO MUCH to say about how awful these programs are, yet you offer NOTHING as an alternative.  Nothing.  No positive energies here.
  It just is interesting that you can't seem to accept that what you state was YOUR experience, was not that of everyone.  Only shooting comments out of "your still brainwashed", or "your being paid to comtinue torturing kids" when I or anyone else posts.
  So, keep on your plight if that is your CALLING in life.  I'm just stating the OTHER side of this story.

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-11-15 08:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

" The reason I posted that I never endured nor witnessed abuse at LIFE is simply to state the truth. WHY would I NOT jump in with you all if I did?!?   Many of you state that "these programs" are harmful and abusive to all , when that was NOT my experience at ALL (nor was it for hundreds of others I witnessed through my time there).

You're absolutely right - you should jump in.  But  instead of personally attacking people why don't you challenge the facts?  How is it that I  and several others witnessed different things?  

I can think of at least two people by name that I saw "taken down".  One of those names appeared on the reunion board, so I'm going to guess that she won't corroborate the story.  Furthermore - I can't trust my memory that is was actually that person.  The other person I've come to know personally, but she doesn't have the capacity to get involved in this, and I'm not going to "out" her, like so many jerks like to do for sadistic pleasure around here.  If she's reading, she'll know who I mean.  I know I saw quite a few "taken down" and shuffled to the back while the staff at the time led us in a chorus of Zip-a-dee-doo-dah.  

Hell, I remember one going down right next me - damned near knocked me outta the pew.

I find it hard to believe that only I and two other people I know from there have witnessed this.  But then again, you find it hard to believe that we did - so either something drastically changed during your group or ours, or someone's not telling the whole truth.  

  Obviously this really bothers you as it does NOT support your claims.  I won't sit back and say nothing when I know different. That's what my problem is with you making ACROSS THE BOARD claims on all teen drug programs.  It seems easy to just JOIN THE GANG here and say, "Oh Yea , I was abused too!  I ate PBJ sandwiches, and couldn't watch TV for months! TORTUROUS." But I will not.  

No, feeding a kid PB&J is not abusive.  But keeping a kid on a diet of PB&J?  What's the motivation?  What's the purpose?  What kind of outcome is that supposed to produce?

No TV - again, not torture.  However, what do you call it when you withold all outside information from someone, and then one day tell them we're being nuked?  Again - what kind of "therapy" is that?
Was the old 80's kitsch phrase PSYCHE!!! supposed to be funny when you're told you're gonna die in the next hour?

No makeup or cosmetics - fine.  But what was the lack of personal hygiene supposed to prove?  Why couldn't you use acne soap if you had zits or shave your legs?  Why could the guys shave?  

I could go on and on.  But you're right... these little things taken on their own aren't "harmful", but they weren't designed to make you appreciate your "natural beauty" or spark conversation about "The Day After".

  Seems that many of you may have displaced anger.  How did you GET to these programs? A parent?  Maybe that's who your issues are with?

Yep - good point.  But the parents weren't the "professionals", were they?  Yeah, kids did drugs.  Some kids might have had real problems.   Some kids in there did not.  How do you explain that?  Don't you think that if you're going to "diagnose" someone with drug use even - you should have a positive lab test to back it up?

So yeah, the main problem is the parents -  and I know there had to have been more than one parent who dumped their kid in there for the wrong reasons - and none of the professionals ever weeded them out - why?

  You have SO MUCH to say about how awful these programs are, yet you offer NOTHING as an alternative.  Nothing.  No positive energies here.

  It just is interesting that you can't seem to accept that what you state was YOUR experience, was not that of everyone.  Only shooting comments out of "your still brainwashed", or "your being paid to comtinue torturing kids" when I or anyone else posts.

  So, keep on your plight if that is your CALLING in life.  I'm just stating the OTHER side of this story."

I'm not going to post redundantly - the links to the recent media attention are all over this board.  Before that, letters have been written, protests have been staged, reporters have been talked to, investigations have been done, lawsuits are underway... oh, and places have been shut down.  Have you been here yet?  Evidence has been gathered.  

Have you seen the KHK video?  Did you know that KHK was started when kids from LIFE were bussed up to Cincinatti?
The focus of that video (which is hauntingly the same, IMHO) is not about abuse but brainwashing


So yes - please jump in - but at least address the methods and tell how you think they worked.

_________________
Where are we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket??[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2005-11-15 12:58 ]

[Anonymous]

Helana writes:
 Yep - good point. But the parents weren't the "professionals", were they? Yeah, kids did drugs. Some kids might have had real problems. Some kids in there did not. How do you explain that? Don't you think that if you're going to "diagnose" someone with drug use even - you should have a positive lab test to back it up?

So yeah, the main problem is the parents - and I know there had to have been more than one parent who dumped their kid in there for the wrong reasons - and none of the professionals ever weeded them out - why? "
 
  Though the programs were named as adolescent drug rehabs, it is my understanding that one hit off a joint, or one drink of alcohol was enough for someone to enter.  There were NO drugs available while you were in the program, so that is NOT what was addressed mostly.  The issues that WERE addressed (mostly) were attitude, self-esteem, identifying feelings, owning up to actions, taking responsibilities and communicating productively.  Drugs were a symptom of the problem.  The HEART of the problem was what started kids to the path of wanting to drink or use (those issues listed above).
  I never stated that kids weren't restrained.  I did see that. But never for fun, only for the safety of those around them.  Many kids were full of anger and rage, and it wasn't uncommen for them to bust on someone next to them.  You bet your ass I'm gonna grab an arm  or leg of someone next to me raging, than to get hit, kicked or let them do that to anyone else.  
  I did not enjoy standing up and talking about the crap I pulled at home, the stupid things I did when using, and how low my self esteem was from the beginning, BUT I'm SO glad I did.  I can remember standing up on 1st phase and the staff working on gettig me to bring out my VERY muffled anger (contstructively).  They had others mimick me, and it WORKED.  I eventually allowed myself to EXPRESS my REAL thoughts and angry feelings.  It was a turning point for me.  It boosted my self confidence and I learned to not worry about how others thought so much, but to be honest with MY feelings.
  Once I got down to the root of some issues within my self, it was uphill from there.  I had a SHORT drug list, but plenty of irresponsible and negative attitudes and behaviors to deal with. THAT's what was discussed in raps. How to improve with actions, and thoughts (M.I.'s and R.S.A.'s).
  I learned humility, appreciation, respect, resonsibility, self control... and the list goes on.  Had my parents asked me if I'd LIKE to go work on myself through day in and day out counseling for the next year, I would have NEVER said yes. Never.  Do I now wish I hadn't gone through it?? No.
  I had a friend who got into depper trouble than I did, after I entered the program.  Her name was in the paper while I was in the program, for Burglery.  My parents reconnected with her mom and told her if my big improvements since entering the program.  Her mom did not bring her daughter to the program. A couple years after I finsihed the program, my friend's mug shots were on the fron of the local section of the paper.  Murdered (stabbed to death) and left on the side of the road.  I've always wondered if things would have been different... maybe.  

  As for parenst dropping their kids off, well that COULD have happened IF you were an out-of-towner.  However, if you lived IN area, it was a HUGE committment as a family to be in the program, and rules had to be followed.  I know my family committed, and were a "host home" for about 1 year.  Kids stayed with us almost EVERY NIGHT.  I had one friend who was a "permanent foster sister" (as we called them) from the other coast.  We are good friends today (20 yrs later).  We were at each others weddings and our kids play together.  Her parents and my parents stay in touch, and our dads play golf together sometimes.  That's a lot of years of good memories.  Doubt our paths would have ever crossed without the program.  I thankful that they did.  So, those parents who were TRULEY concerned and committed, reaped success from the program.
  Parents who couldn't abide were called and the child was terminated from the program. I saw it happen several times.  The program wouldn't work if the family did not work on themselves as well.  Some parents pulled their kids when it became too much committment for them.  I saw that happen many times too.

[Nihilanthic]

Why are you spouting off nothing but program dogma and nonsense?

For starters, any program that takes in kids who arent drug addicts for drug treatment (whether or not they do 'emotional growth') is bullshit, Period. End of story. It was marketed as a DRUG TREATMENT program!!!

Secondly, "emotional growth" is bullshit. Its not standardized, its not proven to be necessary, and waht you call 'emotional growth' (along with all the dogma you filled your post with) is easily demonstrated to be a vehicle for behavior modification, aka brainwashing.

Thirdly, you seem to give us a roundabout arguement of "well, sometimes you gotta do hard things, and if its hard to do you should do it" with all your nonsense about how you didnt like this, that was hard, bla bla bla. I guess its okay if I beat you up and make you do things you dont like arbitrarily because its hard? NO, ITS NOT.

Fourthly, NO PROGRAM IS SET UP, LISCENSED, OR CAPABLE OF HANDLING PEOPLE WITH ACTUAL DRUG ADDICTION OR WHO HAVE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS OR VIOLENT OUTBURSTS. They dont have a full nursing staff, they dont have the equipment and facilities to handle IV fluids (for drug rehab), they obviously didnt do real blood tests (but might have SAID so when they drew blood, as I know Helena there went in clean as a whistle!) though they might have done 'drug screenings' like what employers would do, they dont have trained staff to handle emotional and psychological outbursts, they only RESTRAINED them (instead of just letting them yell it out and leave them the fuck alone) and on top of that when restraint was necessary, or done at all, they didnt have trained staff - they had OTHER 'PATIENTS' Do it.

Fifthly, I know for a fact that if a parent didn't work the program the kid could very well stay. But Id rather let Helena explain what her mom did and didnt do (well, Ill be blunt, her mom did exactly jack shit!!!).

All the other shit you threw in is just a red herring... no, the whole catch of the day. Stop clouding it and answer the points made, dont add in your programmie spiel about emotional growth and working on yourself and about how necessary it  was. We dont care! We dont care if it was hard or if it was necessary, so why did you bring it up? Hell I KNOW its just bullshit thats either designed or came to be good at breaking you down (constant disclosure, being ATTACKED with the raps and relating and other psychologically damaging bullshit, humiliation from being watched 24/7, no fun, no time to yourself, and basically everything being as unpleasant or at least non-fun as possobile) or isolating you from the outside world.. like NO radio, NO TV, NO news, NO school, no NOTHING.... and like Helena said, saying youre going to die from a Nuclear missile IN THE 19 FUCKIN 80s.

Stop dodging and skimming over the abuse and what she said and giving us your bullshit about emotinal growth and how much you feel it was necessary and fess up to the truth about it. The facts are the facts and people who were there and the proof in the pudding (how KHK is NOW... and its a LIFE spinoff) is the pink elephant thats standing right beside you in this room we call Fornits.

May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-15 08:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

 The reason I posted that I never endured nor witnessed abuse at LIFE is simply to state the truth.
...
Obviously this really bothers you as it does NOT support your claims. I

No, Sue. That's not it. I wasn't in LIFE. I went to school w/ a couple of girls who were, though. They got to wear makeup. We weren't allowed to talk to them, but they didn't have any restriction on talking ot us. It was a small, fundie Baptist school, so they were allowed to be more social w/ the other students than we were, too. On top of that, I've heard from some of the people who were witdrawn from Straight and put in LIFE. So far, every one says it was not as over the top as Straight.

The only time I was in the building was an attempted intake when I was 18. It was still a couple of hourse spent with a couple of very brainwashed young ladies, trying to convince me that they knew more about me than I did. But it wasn't anywhere near as ... what, hostile? hateful? intimidating? as Straight. And they let me walk out after a couple of hours. I don't know how much that had to do w/ ongoing HRS investigations into holding adults illegally or if it was just that they weren't that totally militant.

However, not as bad as Straight is not really saying much.

Let's get this hammered out. When were you there? Cause when Sara and Shane were there, they did do restraints, forced motivating, isolation, coerced confessions, group shaming, kids in authority over other kids and all the rest.

Do you think it's OK to do those things? Or are you saying they're just making it all up?

You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Straight_Inc_Alumni/' target='_new'>Kady

[Antigen]

Ok, I get it, Sue. You didn't "see" any abuse because you think you and everyone else there deserved it. That's really sad. I remember thinking that way for a short while after I got out. When HRS asked me, I said the same thing. I didn't mention that I had been sat on for two hours for refusing to apologize to Group for splitting. And I didn't mention that, after that, they had 3 or 4 girls shove me around a timeout room, shouting and poking at me tag team style for a couple hours more. Didn't even mention the broken nose I got out of that.

Here's the logic. No, I never thought anyone deserved to be treated that way. But then, we weren't allowed to think (no getting into your head!) The way I saw it at the time, I knew they'd do that if I didn't say what they wanted to hear, therefore it wouldn't be "honest" to call it abuse.

But it's been twenty damned years! Snap out of it already!

Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671877046/' target='_new'> Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.