Author Topic: LETS FIGHT FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE!!!  (Read 3412 times)

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Offline BarnardlyB

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LETS FIGHT FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE!!!
« on: October 08, 2005, 09:07:00 PM »
("Bring on the lawsuits, MMS deserves to be exposed. I suggest a group of girls filing suit together, not one alone, as they will be met with great opposition. Good luck to those of you who get the courage to do this, if you do. If you don't, no one will condemn you as it is not an easy thing to go through. Whatever you decide we will be here to back you.")


This statement just makes me rage angry....It lights a fire inside....
Those of you that are FOR MMS....LETS FIGHT!!!!!!!!
I truly believe the battle for MMS is just as important, if not more so, than the one against MMS.
I know this site brings frustration to the staff at MMS right now, but lets show that a school like MMS is worth left standing and is worth to be as left as is....
Yes ladies I agree in change and improvements and to better things, but MMS did its magic for myself and TTTTOOOOONNNNNSSSSS of other girls.
It also,... believe it or not made an impact on those against MMS...Im not talking negitive but look at your life now and tell me MMS didn't change it for the better in some ways. Many of us that stand for MMS see the good and bad....how about you who are against the school....they did do some good for you also!! Why can't you see it both ways and make peace with that????

How about it girls....Shall we fight for what WE believe in or should we back off and let what is being said, be said....
let me know
B[ This Message was edited by: BarnardlyB on 2005-10-08 18:11 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2005, 11:59:00 AM »
You have somewhat of a point, however there are other aspects to consider. Sure, maybe MMS helped some of the girls by simply isolating them from the public until they matured a bit, or got them away from their dysfunctional, destructive families for a year or two, so being there could be seen as an improvement of sorts. However, considering a place good, just because it's better than where you were, is like saying a diet of Fast Food is an improvement over starvation...I think we can all agree that it is. However, going a step further, a diet of fast food is certainly inferior to a balanced diet, and will eventually kill you.

Being warehoused in the boondocks, treated by incompetent people, who have as many "issues" as you do, is not the answer. Yes, many of the girls needed help, a lot of them were (and are) from abusive home environments with parents who range from incompetent to downright horrible. Some of them may suffer from mental illness, or have experienced severe emotional trauma. From the many accounts of what goes on at MMS and other such places, as well as personal knowledge of past and present "students", I think it is safe to say that few, if any, of the inmates come from loving, well functioning families.  The bottom line is, there are scores of alternatives to places like MMS, and just because some kids come out ok, doesn't make the methods used there acceptable. You can point out people who lifted themselves from poverty to achieve great wealth and success, but we all know that such outcomes are not the norm.

So, lets compare apples to apples. Is child abuse ever acceptable? Is brainwashing children into thinking they deserve to be mistreated ok? Is teaching children that differing opinions are unacceptable and dangerous ok? Is instilling fear of nonconformity constructive? Is it morally acceptable that these programs are making obscene profits off of troubled families. Can we condone the continued secrecy, lack of accountability, oversight and regulation that exists in this for profit industry?

If you can answer YES to anyone of these questions, do the world a favor and don't have children. If you already have a family, you need to seek immediate qualified professional help.
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2005, 11:44:00 PM »
Dont worry....Im having children, not that you really care.

Are you an ex staff???? or are you just someone who decided to jump in the converstation.

Like I tell many people who jump on me at the first bite....go back and read my posts. I never said any of your examples are okay....and like diets...they work for some and not for others. Its not an equal comparison...Not every thing is the same across the board...hense the reason for disagreements and discussion..

Having beeen to MMS won't kill me or the other girls that have gone.
Like diets....one method works for others and another for the next group....how can we know the result with out trying???

B
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2005, 01:29:00 AM »
First of all, why do you think it's ok to experiment with children? Many folks don't even think it's ok to experiment with animals. Secondly, I have a very personal interest in these programs, and have done extensive research on the industry as a whole. My findings have been, and continue to be, extremely disturbing. I think that when you mature, you will look back and realize the truth of it all. Hopefully by then, none of these places will exist in their current state.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2005, 11:21:00 AM »
Problem is MMS is not like diets, or anything you can freely go off or on a diet.  With MMS the moment you say this is not for me it is turned into being manipulative.  MMS not bieng for you is not an option, can you see that as being one of the many problems??  Not being allowed to talk to your parents for months doesn't help either and then having your calls monitored...

And even if MMS did some good things, the trauma of the experience far outweighed any benefits for a lot of us.  Favorotism was a problem, I account both these things for varying emotional responses to 'the program'.

And this 'battle' as you like to call it isn't about you or anyone else, it doesn't exist. Any lawuits filed will be between girls who were abused by John and MMS....well, really just John and even Colleen because none of the other founders are there.  Whether or not you found MMS helpful is irrelevant from the standpoint of regulation, lawsuits, and you can argue until your blue but it doesn't make everything we experienced go away or change.  You experience can be or not be whatever you claim it to be and the truth remains the same.
John should have been qualified to run the school: therapy, etc, he never was nor IS he NOW, and beyond that, the techniques he used WERE UNETHICAL, and morally repugnant...I guess what I'm saying is in the same way I tell my uncle who often tells me that his father used to call him names and put him down and just be a terror in general (uncle says it was to make him a better person, whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger) and it was essentially a good thing, while his sister, my aunt tells me it was traumatizing :  Somethings are wrong even if people claim they are helpful or necessary in the end, made them better persons, etc.  

Abuse victims often begin to believe they desevere the abuse they have received.  And MMS made sure we believed this was ok treatment, they made it necessarily ok if not exalted it as life saving techniques by this grand facility that prides itself on excellence...excellence my ass.  

We were young and stupid, what else were we supposed to believe, until we grew older and wiser realizing that, um...this cocky dude had NO IDEA what he was doing, just fear and work and constant crying (psuedo therapy) was the name of the game, with some trust games and group building bullshit that served no purpose.  Trusting the group with your life and all that nonsense, it was a total joke!  I made great firneds, sure, and I'm very close to many... we bonded over terror and a uniquely unjust experience.  But it took many years to clear my head and realize that their solution, AA meetings, and talking about feelings was perhaps their oversimplistic way of offering us 'therapy'.  Life is far more complicated and difficult to build on of Johns dumb ass life lessons 101 classes, what ever happened to empowerment.  
Real empowerment, though, none of this acting as John's soldier bs, mimicing John as if he was god.  I'm talking about real empowerment characterized by freedom of thought, of conscience, freedom to speak, and speak out, encouragement of being critical and analytical, and REAL THERAPY.  MMS was a joke and offered nothing of that sort, things of real value. I did like the closeness to nature, but beyond that, please.... JOKE!  
After 2 years or three years of being at MMS, though, and coming from an abusive home, I'm not suprised by your posts.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2005, 11:29:00 AM »
MMS doesnt kill.


Hmmm... I can't help but wonder just how many unqualified treated youth with illnesses who went on to kill themselves, OD, etc.  I know of one girl who went on to commit suicide.  I suspect this girl would have had at least more of a chance at life if someone with acutal knowledge of how to offer support and real mental health counseling had been provided.  

I often wonder about all the girls who have 'disappeared' as well.

As I see it, it really sound like John has jut been pulling different things/ techniques, etc out of his ass all these years...improvements?  he should have been sure about what methods to employ from the get go, a degree would have probably helped him out, and saved a lot of kids from the trauma of being his guinnea pigs.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2005, 12:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-09 22:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"First of all, why do you think it's ok to experiment with children? Many folks don't even think it's ok to experiment with animals. Secondly, I have a very personal interest in these programs, and have done extensive research on the industry as a whole. My findings have been, and continue to be, extremely disturbing. I think that when you mature, you will look back and realize the truth of it all. Hopefully by then, none of these places will exist in their current state.  "



Come on, K. Your amateur undercover work--NOT extensive research--was undermined by your control issues with your family. I guess you aren't required to have an open mind, but you should be honest about your own bias.

You may have a little knowledge as a paralegal, but you're hardly qualified to do real "research," and a little volunteer work with kids doesn't outfit you to determine the best for everyone.
 :roll:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2005, 03:27:00 PM »
K?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2005, 10:31:00 AM »
I don't know who you think I am, but I'm not K and not a paralegal.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2005, 01:39:00 PM »
k as in kat?  i assure you, I am not a paralegal either- I wish!  I could use the skill for the sake of the money.

Incidentally, it is virtually impossible to do any kind of extensive research on these facilities- they don't collect data nor keep track of their alumni...  Extensive research may very well mean the collecting of personal narratives.  which may very well translate into extensive research- as permitted by the industry...  However, perhaps extensive is not an accurate terms given the limitations imposed?   And perhaps the word research misleads as it implies- does it not, a formal study?  or does it?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2005, 12:28:00 AM »
Hi Kat, I'm not the K either, but you know who I am and that I really have done some pretty extensive research...on personal level. The bottom line is, that these programs incarcerate kids and deprive them of their constitutional rights, leave them open to unreported abuse and treat them with less legal consideration than terrorists and other felons. If MMS is so wonderful, why can't we visit, why are all the phone calls monitored and mail censored?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2005, 01:15:00 AM »
Sounds like someone here doesn't know who they're talking to or talking about. Paralegal? I don't think so.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2005, 12:54:00 PM »
well, now I'm very curious to find out who you are...hmmm...

BTW, MMS doesn't censor mail in the traditional sense- at least not with me, they didn't really read go through mail, but then again, of course I could only receive mail from my famly for the first 3 months, a least- during which time they very convincingly made their arguments as to why I needed to sumbit- saying things like I would di otherwise or putting me on 'intervention' to work...after that I could write only to the people they and my mom both agreed was best- 'healthy'- in other words, not only not bad for me, but would not challenge my need to be there  (Hence, relatives who disagree with the childs placement at MMS, and probably any these programs are either distanced or eliminated enitrely from having contact)  It's all about control- let us not confuse things ... any criticisms were deemed manipulative, so they didn't have to go through my stuff anymore- I began to believe it too! Choice:  MMS or death, MMS or no family, MMS or insane asylum (forever!), MMS or jail-- hmmm... let me see... Now I realize I really would have been better of, at least in an insane asylum- jail would have been unlikely and death perhaps preventable by going to an asylum where THERE ARE DOCTORS!!! Oh, the agony! I'm really not being fascecious about that- it truly was torture- the enducing of an entire entity that never would have xisted through coercion, when part of you know's something it not quite right- insufferable...
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Offline BarnardlyB

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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2005, 07:27:00 PM »
I would like to know who you are anon....seems interesting you make such strong mean, harsh statements...equaling to terrorists???,  and you can't even let us know who you are,....
Have you truly done youre research??? How many other places have the same rules, guidelines, structure...what have you, as MMS??   MANY!!!!!!!!!! Almost all.....keep digging


"Im really not being fascecious about that- it truly was torture- the enducing of an entire entity that never would have xisted through coercion, when part of you know's something it not quite right- insufferable..."

As I remember Kat, when I first got to MMS,  you were one of the "good" kids...one of the older students who "got it". You were the one everyone looked up....wanted to be like....do you not remember???
Why not run away on a home visit....or as I remember Annie D....she convinced her mom to pull her out,...why not you???, or was it truly not TTTHHHHHAAAATTTTT bad???[ This Message was edited by: BarnardlyB on 2005-10-12 16:28 ]
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2005, 09:18:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-12 16:27:00, BarnardlyB wrote:

"
As I remember Kat, when I first got to MMS,  you were one of the "good" kids...one of the older students who "got it". You were the one everyone looked up....wanted to be like....do you not remember???

Why not run away on a home visit....or as I remember Annie D....she convinced her mom to pull her out,...why not you???, or was it truly not TTTHHHHHAAAATTTTT bad???


I was one of the 'good' ones, wasn't I- lol.  I was quiet and tried to do everything and anything I could to get out of there as quickly as possible.  At that point why run, you're on a home visit, usually means you are heading home soon.  I was so terrified at the thought of losing my family if I ran...all that shit for so long and the 'trust' b/w my parent and me to fall apart- that would have been equally as heart wrenching.  Then to end up on the streets or back at MMS or somewhere worse- heard Provo Canyon mentioned a lot, so... I don't know which would have been worse.  
I also bought into the bs I was being fed to some degree- I was like a raw nerve, had NO idea how to act anymore in public, was terrified that anything I did would lead back to 'old behaviors' and that would make me almost as good as dead- crazy shit, but I believed it!  I think I became almost agaraphobic of the outside world... I also didn't want to run anymore- that's why I was placed at MMS to begin with and I wanted help...but me not running had everything to do with this constant terrorized state I found myself in. I was scared to death all the time of what I did do, didn't do, how I did, how I might be perceived by the school, everything... It's hard to describe...But I guess, B, you didn't feel at all that way, so I just don't know how to convery that feeling to you...

Really, Annie D took off? I like her...wonder what ever happened to her...
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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