Dear Art,

[GregFL]

On 2005-10-05 10:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"He's not half Jewish. "

But was he an atheist?  I seem to remember him being one, but I am not sure.

Of course, I know he believed in a higher power, but I always thought he felt that he was it.

 :grin:

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 08:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen,

Please, do you have any idea how often you offend people?"

Yes, but mostly only brainwashed people.

I remain, in the service of mankind, doing my part to piss off the Religious Reich. :nworthy:

The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's no good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.
--Carl Sagan

[Antigen]

ARTIST: George and Ira Gershwin
TITLE: It Ain't Necessarily So
Lyrics and Chords

[Porgy and Bess]

It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
De things dat yo' liable to read in de Bible
It ain't necessarily so


Li'l David was small but oh my
Li'l David was small but oh my
He fought big Goliath who lay down and dieth
Li'l David was small but oh my

Oh Jonah he lived in de whale
Oh Jonah he lived in de whale
For he made his home in dat fish's abdomen
Oh Jonah he lived in de whale

Li'l Moses was found in a stream
Li'l Moses was found in a stream
He floated on water 'til ole Pharaoh's daughter
She fished him she says from that stream

It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
Dey tell all you chillun de debble's a villain
But 'taint necessarily so

To get into Hebben don' snap for a sebben
Live clean, don' have no fault
Oh I takes dat gospel whenever it's pos'ble
But wid a grain of salt

Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years
But who calls dat livin' when no gal'll give in
To no man what's nine hundred years

I'm preachin' dis sermon to show
It ain't nessa, ain't nessa
Ain't nessa, ain't nessa
It ain't necessarily so

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

[marshall]

I specifically recall that Art did not believe that Jesus was the son of god or divine in any sense. He often spoke about this in the group. He used to say that Jesus was a great rabbi, but that's all. As to whether he was an atheist, I have no idea. I've wondered about the religious angle of the Straight / Seed split too, since Straight became a very conservative christian group from what I've read. I also remember born-again oldtimers coming to group and relating about finding Jesus. If Art happened to be present, he would take pains to point out that this wasn't necessary to get straight or stay straight and was just their personal choice. I give him credit for being much more tolerant of religious diversity than groups like Straight and some of the other later off-shoots. As long as your primary religion was the Seed, you could embrace any other faith.

[Thom]

On 2005-10-05 08:47:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-10-04 21:55:00, Thom wrote:


I do recognise you as a fellow human being, living out God's will for your life to the best of your ability, and I thank you for your willingness to do so.

 :rofl: Thom, accusing Art of living out God's will is like wishing the Program on me. Are you even vaguely aware of how often and lightly you offend people?

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author

"

Yes, Ginger, I am vaguely aware of how often and lightly I offend people. I think Art can handle it. People have hurled harsher comments at him.

[Thom]

On 2005-10-05 08:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"James, the brother of Jesus, told me to post this in the wrong thread.  LIAR.





Dear Art,



Thanks for convincing my parents physchologists were all "full of shit" and warehousing me for all that time while people poked at me and screamed in my face and denied me basic human dignity like toilet privelidges. It really helped me get in touch with other people living inside my brain and identify the voices.



I am now medicated and institutionalized, but I recite the 3 signs to my invisible friend every day, then we go seven stepping around the courtyard with Jesus and Hitler.



Your the best!



And thanks to Mussolini for showing me the right thread!  

"

...is he there too?

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 11:39:00, marshall wrote:

As long as your primary religion was the Seed, you could embrace any other faith.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I remember it too. I did thoroughly enjoy that song that I quoted above. It was one of those things that made my mom's head cock to the side like a confused puppy. Sort of like Capt. James T. Kirk's method of destroying robots by speaking contradictions to them.

But it wasn't much different in Straight, either. I always thought the CC influence came from the local communities that made up Group. First there was St. Pete, then Sarasota, then Cincinatti, then Orlando and Atlanta. But Melvin and Betty Sembler are not Christian. They're Jewish. So I don't think it was their idea. I think they just didn't really care much one way or the other so long as, as you note, the Program was the primary religion.
 

For more than a hundred years much complaint has been made of the unmethodical way in which schools are conducted...with what result?  Schools remain exactly as they were.
--Comenius,1632

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 11:41:00, Thom wrote:

 I think Art can handle it.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Oh yeah! That Art, he was always so humble and open to criticism and such. I doubt seriously that his remaining followers would dare read to him any of that criticism. Wouldn't do anyone any good anyway. It's not asif he needs to hear it and change his ways. The man is old and ill and no danger to anyone anymore.

But, vindictive and mean as it may be, I would still love to be a fly on the wall if you ever do decide to pay him a visit and tell him how much you admire his living his life for God.

An Animated Cartoon Theology:
1. People are animals.
2. The body is mortal and subject to incredible pain.
3. Life is antagonistic to the living.
4. The flesh can be sawed, crushed, frozen, stretched, burned, bombed, and plucked for music.
5. The dumb are abused by the smart and the smart destroyed by their own cunning.
6. The small are tortured by the large and the large destroyed by their own momentum.
7. We are able to walk on air, but only as long as our illusion supports us.
-- E. L. Doctorow "The Book of Daniel"

[GregFL]

On 2005-10-05 11:39:00, marshall wrote:

 I've wondered about the religious angle of the Straight / Seed split too, since Straight became a very conservative christian group from what I've read. "

Not really true.  Some of the later offshoots became religious in nature but still used the exact same techniques, but straight continued along the same religious path as the Seed.


  Remember that straight was run by a Jewish guy..

[Thom]

On 2005-10-05 10:43:00, GregFL wrote:

"

On 2005-10-05 10:20:00, Anonymous wrote:



"He's not half Jewish. "

But was he an atheist?  I seem to remember him being one, but I am not sure.



Of course, I know he believed in a higher power, but I always thought he felt that he was it.



 :grin:



"

I heard he got an Honorary Doctorate in Atheism from The Atheism Institute of Metropolitan Fort Lauderdale, Florida University College

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 12:06:00, GregFL wrote:



  Remember that straight was run by a Jewish guy.."

Oh, come to think of it, Betty just testified in her deposition that the Ref., Dr., Dr., Fr. Virgil Miller "Cassian" Newton remains a dear, dear friend and she thinks he's an extrodinarily wonderful human being.

I'm sort of leaning toward the notion that all the Sembler's public affiliation w/ Jewish causes and organizations are nothing but political moves. I don't think they're any more Jewish than that sadistic sob is Christian.

Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813912652/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> James Madison

[marshall]

So Straight did not have a c.c. (to use Gingers shorthand) slant to the program? My mistake. I got that impression from reading bits and pieces from people that were there. So you could be like a Hindu, Buddhist or Atheist and the Straight program was ok with that?

[Anonymous]

I heard he was running after a splitter and ran by the Univ. and saw the honorary Doctorate on the ground picked it up.  He went back to his office & just hung it on the wall.   :rofl:

[GregFL]

Thats Dong.

Thank you very much.

 :grin:

[GregFL]

On 2005-10-05 12:19:00, marshall wrote:

"So Straight did not have a c.c. (to use Gingers shorthand) slant to the program? My mistake. I got that impression from reading bits and pieces from people that were there. So you could be like a Hindu, Buddhist or Atheist and the Straight program was ok with that?"

As long as your primarly religion was the straight, yes.

Again, same shit, different shithole.

Later on some of the, for lack of a better term, "leaders" of various spinoffs were christians and used the captivity part of the program to "share" their christianity with others.

SAFE in Orlando did this under the watchfull eye of christian Lorretta Parrish. Later I believe when she left it reverted back to a less christian type kiddie Jail.