Anchor Academy for Boys in Havre, Montana.

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-18 08:22:00, corecrash wrote:


It's not a side effect if the behavior was there before they attended ANY program be it faith based or goverment ran.

You're assuming that it was there before, why?

Remember, I'm not claiming ANY program is righteous. Every program in this country is only as good as the individual makes it. My son thrived at Anchor, others don't.

I know you believe that, I just doubt it.

 

Some thrive in drug rehab others rebell and use it as an excuse to plunge deeper into whatever they are into.

Are you trying to be condescending or does it just come naturally to you?  Some don't have a goddamn drug problem in the first place.  Why does it have to be that anyone who is "rebellious" towards treatment is just in "denial" or using criticism of programs as "an excuse"?

However, according to your viewpoint, which I do not believe is invalid, neither is mine, no one can succeed, and everyone is abused in these programs.

We can get into a semantical argument here.  Yours and my definitions of success I think would be very different.

According to my son and a few other people that post here, this is not true. However, when they do claim it is not true you label them as brain washed Stepford kids.

No, I haven't done that but it's a likely after having been in a thought reform camp.  Read these, its very similar if not identical to the kinds of practices these programs employ.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html

You cannot discount the achievements of some by saying they are now part of the problem. Drug addicts do this when their using friend reforms and they can no longer count on them as a co-partier. That is from the mouth of an educated professional. Not me but a chemical dependency counselor we went to while our son was in drug rehab. Supported by the state, whom I might add, restrict phone calls from parents after the first 30 days and none for the first month. Note that every staff has a degree, and directors have a masters or PhD in their respective fields.

Yep, you betcha they're part of the problem.  This view of teens and the whole propoganda machine has been running for so long that a lot of "professionals" just accept it at face value without even bothering to do any real, unbiased research into it.

Therefore, if you can use a few people for your examples, then I can use a few for mine.

I wrote about my pre-program friends in response to your anecdote about your high school buds.

Note I used words like "some" and phrases like "Only 3 of the total population.? I am indicating that my sample size is small. You have indicated that your sample size is drawn from the entire population.

No I haven't.  That's what you're reading into it.

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson

[Anonymous]

However, according to your viewpoint, which I do not believe is invalid, neither is mine, no one can succeed, and everyone is abused in these programs.a

Ya still don't get it do ya? This is not that complicated, sir. You are not the first to come here desperately posting over and over just like you have. You are not special or unique.

Here is the obvious answer, that everyone seems to know, excluding you. These type of facilities are known for abusing kids, have horrible track records and have been documented by the NHI and NMHA to NOT work and actually do emotional harm to teens. Most importantly of all, there is already help out there available at NON abusive and NON emotionally stressful treatment hospitals. Your argument states it's these types of 'programs' or nothing. That is completely false logic, and dangerous thinking for your kids.

You say your son is a rapists? You say he has anger issues? Why don't you want to get him some serious and real help with his issues and help him out in the future? Why do you go to the back-alley version of treatment, the absolute least effective form of treatment?

If my kid got hit by a car, and I instead of taking him to a hospital, took him to my friend with no medical training to 'fix him' wouldn't you think that is strange? Wouldn't you ask why I don't just take him to the real hospital for help? You are doing the same thing. You are putting a bandaid on a blood gushing, mortal wound, and it won't hold for long.

You have managed to find the bottom-of-the-barrel treatment for teens, and now are spending your days and nights defending this to a bunch of strangers on a website. And you don't see anything weird about this? The rest of us sure do. Time for a reality check, sir.

[Anonymous]

, no one can succeed, and everyone is abused in these programs

Of course EVERYONE is not abused. But some are. Are you willing to take that chance with YOUR kid?

One common theme among kids in these programs however is, NEGLECT- a whole different type of emotional abuse.

By choosing one of the worst treatment environments in the country, that is showing extreme neglect. Instead of researching alternative treatments you are trying to 'impress the crowd' on fornits with your stunning debating skills, that is NEGLECT. Why aren't you spending your time reading about teenage psychology, finding a more effective treatment environment, or reading everything you can find on this program? Ya know, your kid IS coming home one day, and even though you think he will be 'fixed', chances are he will return to his old behaviors when out of the controlled environment.

Instead you are spending your time here trying to one-up a bunch of program survivors. Your kid isn't even out of the program and you are already singing it's praise.

That's like me doing a restaurant review before I even taste the food.

You know how they say crazy people don't know their crazy....?

[corecrash]

My posts are not desperate and I'm singing my SONS praises not the program. He went through, he overcame, he succeeded.

You are so bent on condemning a SPECIFIC program that you discount the achievements of some of the students. That is abuse too folks. What would you say to his face? I am sure you would spew profanity and resort to name-calling. Yea that's healthy and exactly what you claim Anchor does. Where do I sign up? You have not even been able to provide any evidence of abuse AT ANCHOR. One member of this forum claimed he was abused AT ANCHOR. 3 of them said Dennis was a good guy. In response, you say they are crazy. Why are you even on the Anchor Academy survivor forum if you did not go to Anchor? That is what I find funny.

What is even more amazing, the one person that claims abuse will not even tell the details. HEY EVERYONE..I HAVE BEEN ABUSED BUT IT IS A SECRET BECAUSE AGENT DENNIS WILL KILL ME! Come on people, I have been to Anchor; it is not the Special Forces or the NSA. The US Air Force removed all the surveillance equipment a long time ago. Do you think they have the resources to monitor these sites, hack fornits for the IP of the poster, hack the ISP, get personal information in an effort to mame, and kill each one of you? Talk about conspiracy theory.

So instead of telling me that some dead old man born in 1914, began his ministry in 1950, and adhered to a 1930's point of view, is guilty of abuse, find me the people or the evidence that Dennis McElwrath abused anyone.

There is a high probability that someone in your ancestry owned a slave in either America or some other country. That means you are a slave trader, which is illegal by the way. Cain killed Abel. So the origins of humans are murderous. You know what that means in your logic? YOU ARE A MURDERER! This will be an easy case, I have all the proof right her in my daughter?s American History book. Oh, here is another piece of evidence right here in the Jewish Torah. I?ve researched your origins and I have in my self proclaimed wisdom found you guilty as charged. So I think you should go on trial for the murder of Abel and the troubles of all the Africans forced into slavery. What time is best for you?

On 2006-01-18 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

, no one can succeed, and everyone is abused in these programs

Of course EVERYONE is not abused. But some are. Are you willing to take that chance with YOUR kid?



One common theme among kids in these programs however is, NEGLECT- a whole different type of emotional abuse.



By choosing one of the worst treatment environments in the country, that is showing extreme neglect. Instead of researching alternative treatments you are trying to 'impress the crowd' on fornits with your stunning debating skills, that is NEGLECT. Why aren't you spending your time reading about teenage psychology, finding a more effective treatment environment, or reading everything you can find on this program? Ya know, your kid IS coming home one day, and even though you think he will be 'fixed', chances are he will return to his old behaviors when out of the controlled environment.



Instead you are spending your time here trying to one-up a bunch of program survivors. Your kid isn't even out of the program and you are already singing it's praise.



That's like me doing a restaurant review before I even taste the food.



You know how they say crazy people don't know their crazy....?  "

[ This Message was edited by: corecrash on 2006-01-18 10:28 ]

[Anonymous]

Again you choose to spend your time justifying yourself to us. NEWS FLASH: none of this effects any of us, and very few (if any) people care. It effects you and your son only. There is obviously a reason why you are here spending day after day with these long rambling posts about nothing. It certainly seems strange to me. Good luck with your son, I hope I'm wrong.

[corecrash]

Do you know whom my posts affect? It affects the people that read this and their kid who has been in DH 22 times, who has been through wilderness camps, several counselors, drug rehabs and continue to run away. The parents who the courts force them to take parenting class because their kid will not go to school no matter what you do. It impacts the crying mother that lives next door to my parents who's son was found dead in a tree house from over use of whip its.

When they come here they get uneducated, unproven rhetoric from people that to this day continue to have problems and choose to blame everyone else. You know, The ones letting their kids toke it up claiming they will be ok when they won't even be able to remember how to boil an egg let alone how to pass a drug test when they try to get a decent job.

That is why I post here.

have posted in some form or another.

On 2006-01-18 10:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Again you choose to spend your time justifying yourself to us. NEWS FLASH: none of this effects any of us, and very few (if any) people care. It effects you and your son only. There is obviously a reason why you are here spending day after day with these long rambling posts about nothing. It certainly seems strange to me. Good luck with your son, I hope I'm wrong."

[Anonymous]

You are not the first parent who has come here DEMANDING proof from those abused and will not be the last. You/they claim in absense of this, you must be completely right about the program and it's the survivors fault for not providing proof. Again, nothing new, many parents do this here. Who would want to debate such a sensitive topic with the likes of you? Your aggressive, close minded and interested in debating. Nobody wants to debate facts, and events that happened in their own life. You choose not to believe people, that's your choice. We all make choices, some are right and some are wrong. I hope you are right about this one, and judging by your obsessive need to post here and justify yourself, I'd say it was the wrong one.

[Anonymous]

Do you know whom my posts affect? It affects the people that read this and their kid who has been in DH 22 times, who has been through wilderness camps, several counselors, drug rehabs and continue to run away.

Yeah, there is many evangelical programmies such as yourself. Nothing new here. So if you choose, go spend your life 'saving' teens by sending them to innapropriate treatment when real treatment is avialable and see how that works. I'm sure it will be very fulfilling. To some of us who view you from an outside, detached perspective it's quite obvious you are unsure of your decision and are simply trying to justify it to yourself. You NEED others to agree with you, hence your mission to spread the good word of HLA. It's very common in this industry. Misery loves company, eh?

[WWFSMD]

On 2006-01-18 10:39:00, corecrash wrote:


When they come here they get uneducated, unproven rhetoric from people that to this day continue to have problems and choose to blame everyone else.

No, they get the benefit of speaking to people who have been on both sides of the issue.  A good many of us have been incarcerated in these places AND we have kids.  Why do you insist that we've all "got problems to this day" and we "blame everyone else"?  Sure, I've got problems in life, everyone does.  Some of those problems are due to the abuse and neglect I endured in a warehouse, some are not.  I've also got a pretty decent life in spite of what I was subjected to.  That's due largely in part to finally being able to connect the dots to how the places work.

You know, The ones letting their kids toke it up claiming they will be ok when they won't even be able to remember how to boil an egg let alone how to pass a drug test when they try to get a decent job.

Yeah, that no good eldest of mine who put me through hell for a couple of years is really having a difficult time.  :grin:



damn kids.....GET OFF MY LAWN!!  :lol:

Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-18 10:18:00, corecrash wrote:

"I'm singing my SONS praises not the program. He went through, he overcame, he succeeded.

I thought you said your son was still at the program, at least it was suggested with this post of yours a couple pages back:

We just got off the phone with our son about 5 minutes ago. We told him about this forum and asked him, do you know that you can come home anytime you want without any form of consequence? He said he did know and he wanted to stay and graduate.

So how did he 'overcome' and 'succeed' already, those words make it seem like this is a done deal, and he's been home for years and is doing well. Is this the case, or was it a grammatical error and he's still there?

I'm sure many will find this post interesting.
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#135840

[Anonymous]

You seem to make my posts about you. I know you don't have a drug problem etc.. but I'm not refering to you.

[Anonymous]

He is still there, for the next 4 months. Then he comes home. I guess he's a failure and I should discount all of his success then. Are you sure you aren't an abuser yourself? Dag, I should have never told him I was proud of him last night!

I'm sure many will find this post interesting.

Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#135840"

yea..that was very interesting. It gives so much explicit detail of of how he was abused. (sarcasm) So the father a few post after that who had his son in DH 22 times and ran away from every other court mandated service, the ones you advocate, was he not abused?

[Anonymous]

If this boy wasn't possibly in danger, couldn't one almost feel sorry for this pitiful father who is trying so hard to justify locking his son away in this cheap, faith-based, abusive facility? Bet this father is even "proud" his son is singing in Brother Dennis's choir, and is paraded around from church-to-church so Brother Dennis can beg more money for "God's Work." Makes one want to puke, doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

Actually, yes it does.  ::puke::

[corecrash]

That's not an intelligent argument.

On 2006-01-18 13:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If this boy wasn't possibly in danger, couldn't one almost feel sorry for this pitiful father who is trying so hard to justify locking his son away in this cheap, faith-based, abusive facility? Bet this father is even "proud" his son is singing in Brother Dennis's choir, and is paraded around from church-to-church so Brother Dennis can beg more money for "God's Work." Makes one want to puke, doesn't it?"