follow-up questions on Hyde School

[Anonymous]

Why do you want to know anyone's names? What is your name?

Again you are showing the controlling and arrogant attitude of staff and owners of Hyde.  If you don't think like Hyde then you "don't get it."  I was always told this is a sign of a Cult......

Well, to state the obvious, knowing someone's name would probably lead to "oh, I remember this person, and here is what really happened".  How can you think its not relevant in ascertaining whether their claims have any validity?

Oh, just one other no doubt remotely possibly interpretation of "you don't get it".  I am thinking, and stop me if this is too much of stretch here, but maybe those people actually just never got it.

Sure, it could be evidence of a cult.  But there are equally viable alternative interpretations....

[Troll Control]

http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/ ... #_ftnref23

Here's a good link to start with.  I can certainly quote many studies and you to them for your perusal, but this is a good, basic document that has annotations for all of its sources that you may also browse.

I don't have time right now to write a lengthy post, but since you show some interest in learning a bit more about the underlying psychological components of "programs," I thought I would give you a couple of jumping off points to do your own research.

You can look up LGAT -Large Group Awareness Training - and see what it's all about.  It's principles are the underpinnings of nearly all "seminars" ("propheets," "workshops," "ecounter groups," "NLP" or "neurolinguistic programming," etc.).

Have a read and we'll discuss it tomorrow (or when you have time).

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

Oh, just one other no doubt remotely possibly interpretation of "you don't get it". I am thinking, and stop me if this is too much of stretch here, but maybe those people actually just never got it.

Ok, stop. That is too much of a stretch.

Sure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations

No, not equally viable. Not even close. Read up on LGAT and and cults. It fits absolutely perfectly.

BTW, there are other, far more likely reason why someone w/ extreme fidelity to the program might want to know the identities of critics. What do you suppose these people disclosed in those seminars, hm? Bet some of it was some good dirt, huh!

You are so transparent  :roll:

God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
http://www.perlservices.com' target='_new'>Perl Services

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 19:43:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-10-05 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:


Oh, just one other no doubt remotely possibly interpretation of "you don't get it". I am thinking, and stop me if this is too much of stretch here, but maybe those people actually just never got it.

Ok, stop. That is too much of a stretch.

Sure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations

No, not equally viable. Not even close. Read up on LGAT and and cults. It fits absolutely perfectly.



BTW, there are other, far more likely reason why someone w/ extreme fidelity to the program might want to know the identities of critics. What do you suppose these people disclosed in those seminars, hm? Bet some of it was some good dirt, huh!



You are so transparent  :roll:

God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Anonymity Anonymous
Thank you Ginger!  This "Hydette" is so programmed!!  This person continues to try and control minds rather than admitting there are terrible flaws in this program!  Why did one headmaster or asst headmaster resign because of plagerism?  Why did another headmaster get transfered after being involved in a scandal involving a lawsuit where a good friend/staff member of his was accused of fondling a student?  Why did another top administrator recently think about leaving?  Why do at least 50% of Teachers leave each year?  Why would a teacher be required to put their own kids at the school or be told, "you aren't committed to the program?"  Cult, Cult, Cult!!

I could go on and on with the questions, but Hyde's fans will continue to defend.  The point is, Hyde has A LOT wrong with it, but they continue to say, "we always raise the bar and continue to make good changes."  This is fine for a new school, but after all these years you would think Hyde "got it!"

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-05 15:00:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/factsheets/rtcs.htm#_ftnref23



Here's a good link to start with.

Um, McFly.  Hello.  McFly.  Anyone home.  This is link to a legal website on residential treatment centers.  Reading the first paragraph and its pretty clear its not even close to being about Hyde.

How is it that you think a legal website on residential treatment centers are relevant to my request to prove up your statement:

What I said was that there has been definitive research done by NIH (and several other unbiased research agencies) that irrefutably proves that programs like Hyde ("Emotional Growth" or "Character Building" - call it what you like) don't work.

Bring it.  After all, you are the psychological professional here, right? Absent IRREFUTABLE PROOF, it seems to me a fair conclusion that people may assume everything you say is a lie, and also have a good idea why you and/or your family didn't make it at Hyde.

[HydeFan]

Sure, it could be evidence of a cult. But there are equally viable alternative interpretations

No, not equally viable. Not even close. Read up on LGAT and and cults. It fits absolutely perfectly.

I conceded that this language could be used by a cult.  I also proposed that the same language might also be used by someone that was actually right, hence, an equally viable interpretation.  Why is that so hard to grok?

BTW, there are other, far more likely reason why someone w/ extreme fidelity to the program might want to know the identities of critics. What do you suppose these people disclosed in those seminars, hm? Bet some of it was some good dirt, huh!

This is a fair point.  I actually don't expect anyone to reveal their true identities here.  But why is it hard to understand that if someone makes accusations about Hyde and doesn't reveal their identity, that their true bias is indeterminate and all their comments suspect (the same way mine presumably are)?

Thank you Ginger!  This "Hydette" is so programmed!!  This person continues to try and control minds rather than admitting there are terrible flaws in this program!

On some level, I can agree I seek a control of sorts, but only through the marketplace of ideas, where the best reasoning and logic (or best marketer) prevails.

But yes, thank you Ginger.  Am I correct in that you didn't go to Hyde and have no contact with Hyde other than posting on this website?  And posting a lot more on schools you have decided were abusive?  If so, do you see yourself as some freedom fighter?  The brainwashing was so strong at this school (that was on 60 Minutes twice, Baraba Walters, Newsweek etc.) that you need to jump in an help save these poor souls who can't speak up for themselves?  Sounds like you may have less of a life than I do!

Why did one headmaster or asst headmaster resign because of plagerism?

Um, well, I got the same letter you probably did.  The school handled this openly and courageously.  Most institutions would probably have hidden this the best they could.  Instead, Hyde hung its dirty laundry out for all to see, and took decisive action.  That looks to me like a principled system that walks the walk.

Why did another headmaster get transfered after being involved in a scandal involving a lawsuit where a good friend/staff member of his was accused of fondling a student?

I have no clue about this, but if the transfer related to their handling of something that happens sooner or later in every high school in America, it sounds again like they took appropriate corrective action, not just against the teacher, but his/her supervisor as well.  What did you want, have them to commit hari kari?  Self-immolate?  

Why did another top administrator recently think about leaving?

 

I don't really know.  Why does anyone ever think about leaving a job?

Why do at least 50% of Teachers leave each year?

 

Please site your source?  And every year since when?  Anyway, personally, I am concerned with teacher turnover, but I don't have numbers.  If true, it could be for a lot of reasons though.  Underpaid, overworked, and they too don't get it.  There are other possibilities as well.  Maybe they agree with you and want to post about it here.  I did see an invitation to that effect in another stream but no responsive posts last I saw.  My question to you though is, do you know for a fact the reasons teachers leave?

Why would a teacher be required to put their own kids at the school or be told, "you aren't committed to the program?"  Cult, Cult, Cult!!

If they are told this, they shouldn't be.  Not sure that makes them a cult.

I could go on and on with the questions, but Hyde's fans will continue to defend.

Your questions are short on facts, and are far from compelling.  I will certainly go after the low hanging fruit to make place accusations in context or add additional facts or information I am aware of.

I am a proud Hydette.  Hyde saved my life and many years after I went there is still have profoundly positive repurcussions in my family.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-10-05 22:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-05 15:00:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:


"http://www.bazelon.org/issues/children/factsheets/rtcs.htm#_ftnref23





Here's a good link to start with.

Um, McFly.  Hello.  McFly.  Anyone home.  This is link to a legal website on residential treatment centers.  Reading the first paragraph and its pretty clear its not even close to being about Hyde.



How is it that you think a legal website on residential treatment centers are relevant to my request to prove up your statement:

What I said was that there has been definitive research done by NIH (and several other unbiased research agencies) that irrefutably proves that programs like Hyde ("Emotional Growth" or "Character Building" - call it what you like) don't work.

Bring it.  After all, you are the psychological professional here, right? Absent IRREFUTABLE PROOF, it seems to me a fair conclusion that people may assume everything you say is a lie, and also have a good idea why you and/or your family didn't make it at Hyde."

Oy vey.  I guess some people really "just don't get it" and you're one of them.

I posted this link simply because it links to many other sources of information, not because it is a definitive document.  I didn't have time to post all the links you should read and I'm glad I  didn't take the time to do so, as you clearly are not interested in any facts or scientific research regarding LGAT based "treatment centers."

You try to present yourself as an educated, critical thinker, but your reasoning skills are deficient.  You seem not to be able to look at an issue academically, but rather view others' opinions as an attack on your way of life rather than your line of reasoning.

What ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?  You hurl that as if it were an insult.  It is, in fact, the opposite: a testament to healthy coping skills and the lack of a "need" for a place like Hyde.

And, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology.  Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).  It seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system.  Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?

Your complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.  You are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy, unwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.  Your behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents.  For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child.  Just look at the damaged product it creates.

[HydeFan]

What ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?

If you weren't then you seem to have no first hand basis for what you say.

And, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology.  Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).  

My comments stand for themselves.

It seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system.  Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?

Your inability to manage your hostility and your failure to recognize that if someone did have a good experience at Hyde their reflections on the subject would be similar is more evidence you are not a psychology professional.

Your complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.

Paragraph 3 of personal attacks about yet something else outside of the authors ability to have all but the most scant insight.

You are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy,

Even when off topic, I have done my best to answer every question you asked that I had any potential insight into.

unwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.

Um, I asked you for a site on your most damning comments, that NIH had publish irrefutable proof Hyde didn't work.  You didn't provide that site, and the one you did provide was completely irrelevant.  You also provided no sites for LGATs.  I have already done a fair amount of research for those of you making false allegations about Hyde and proved there appears to be a certain willingness to lie in order to manipulate public opinion.  Until you come up with your NIH study, you will fall into the same group.

Your behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents.  For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child.  Just look at the damaged product it creates."

I trust the parents can think for themselves.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-10-06 08:33:00, HydeFan wrote:

"

What ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?

If you weren't then you seem to have no first hand basis for what you say.

And, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology.  Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).  

My comments stand for themselves.

It seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system.  Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?

Your inability to manage your hostility and your failure to recognize that if someone did have a good experience at Hyde their reflections on the subject would be similar is more evidence you are not a psychology professional.

Your complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.

Paragraph 3 of personal attacks about yet something else outside of the authors ability to have all but the most scant insight.

You are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy,

Even when off topic, I have done my best to answer every question you asked that I had any potential insight into.

unwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.

Um, I asked you for a site on your most damning comments, that NIH had publish irrefutable proof Hyde didn't work.  You didn't provide that site, and the one you did provide was completely irrelevant.  You also provided no sites for LGATs.  I have already done a fair amount of research for those of you making false allegations about Hyde and proved there appears to be a certain willingness to lie in order to manipulate public opinion.  Until you come up with your NIH study, you will fall into the same group.

Your behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents.  For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child.  Just look at the damaged product it creates."

I trust the parents can think for themselves."

Wow.  Cultism at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen.  This person is a complete weirdo and does nothing but attack others and fail to answer questions asked.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-10-06 08:33:00, HydeFan wrote:

"

What ever gave you the idea that I or my family was ever involved with Hyde?

If you weren't then you seem to have no first hand basis for what you say.

And, yes, I am an expert in the field of psychology and sociology.  Try as you may to represent that you have understanding of human behavior and thought, you clearly have no education or experience in that arena (how can you possibly be involved in the "psychotherapeutic community" as you statedwhen you've never even heard of LGAT, one of the most widely discussed topics in that community?).  

My comments stand for themselves.

It seems to me that you simply regurgitate the same bile to every person who questions your value system.  Do you understand that this is normal behavior and reaction for people who have been indoctrinated into cults or cult-like organizations?

Your inability to manage your hostility and your failure to recognize that if someone did have a good experience at Hyde their reflections on the subject would be similar is more evidence you are not a psychology professional.

Your complete and utter lack of ability to reflect upon yourself proves to me that whatever "emotional growth program" you "worked" didn't work for you.

Paragraph 3 of personal attacks about yet something else outside of the authors ability to have all but the most scant insight.

You are singularly unable to answer simple questions about philosophy,

Even when off topic, I have done my best to answer every question you asked that I had any potential insight into.

unwilling to even educate yourself to these subjects and respond in an utterly dogmatic fashion in your attempt to deflect criticism of your beloved program.

Um, I asked you for a site on your most damning comments, that NIH had publish irrefutable proof Hyde didn't work.  You didn't provide that site, and the one you did provide was completely irrelevant.  You also provided no sites for LGATs.  I have already done a fair amount of research for those of you making false allegations about Hyde and proved there appears to be a certain willingness to lie in order to manipulate public opinion.  Until you come up with your NIH study, you will fall into the same group.

Your behavior alone on this board is more than enough to steer parents away from Hyde and its warped philosophy and proponents.  For that, I thank you for doing me a favor, as I can use your so-called "argument" as evidence why nobody should ever consider Hyde as an option for their child.  Just look at the damaged product it creates."

I trust the parents can think for themselves."

I can see why you won't educate yourself about thought reform programs.  The cognitive dissonance would cause you distress.

Whether or not you can recognize it, you are exhibiting the signs and symptoms of cult indoctrination.  Further dialogue with a dogmatic automaton is not productive use of my time.

"Coercive thought reform programs also, among other things, create the potential forces necessary for exercising undue influence over a person's independent decision-making ability, and even for turning the individual into a deployable agent for the organization's benefit without the individual's meaningful knowledge or consent."

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 22:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

Um, McFly. Hello. McFly. Anyone home.

If you ever decide to pick an alias, I've added an avatar just for you.

Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-05 23:27:00, HydeFan wrote:

But yes, thank you Ginger. Am I correct in that you didn't go to Hyde and have no contact with Hyde other than posting on this website? And posting a lot more on schools you have decided were abusive? If so, do you see yourself as some freedom fighter? The brainwashing was so strong at this school (that was on 60 Minutes twice, Baraba Walters, Newsweek etc.) that you need to jump in an help save these poor souls who can't speak up for themselves? Sounds like you may have less of a life than I do!

No, you misunderstand. These "poor souls" seem to be doing a find job of speaking for themselves. My interest in the topic derives from two basic sources.

First, way back in around `70 or `71, my family became involved in a very similar cult called The Seed. It's leader, Art Barker, was very like the way some of these people describe the Gaulds. You can read all about that in the Seed Discussion forum right here on this site. Hell, you can even find avid lifelong supporters of Art and the Seed who sound remarkably like you.

I think Art may have been even a little bit more off kilter than Joe Gauld, as the big government money and successful business people who initially collaborated w/ him gave him the bum's rush after about 4 years and set up shop under a new banner; Straight, Inc.

And this is the other prong of my continued interest in the issue. I don't care so much about what happened to my family 30 odd years ago. I care that you well intended but severely misguided people are inflicting the same destructive "treatment" on a new generation and doing it on my dime. That's just wrong. And I intend to get the word out, to foster meaningful, productive dialog on the topic and, ultimately, to do my small part in putting an end to public support and protection for these harmful practices.

Until you've lost your reputation,you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is.

 


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/068483068X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>MARGARET MITCHELL

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-06 09:55:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-10-05 23:27:00, HydeFan wrote:


But yes, thank you Ginger. Am I correct in that you didn't go to Hyde and have no contact with Hyde other than posting on this website? And posting a lot more on schools you have decided were abusive? If so, do you see yourself as some freedom fighter? The brainwashing was so strong at this school (that was on 60 Minutes twice, Baraba Walters, Newsweek etc.) that you need to jump in an help save these poor souls who can't speak up for themselves? Sounds like you may have less of a life than I do!

No, you misunderstand. These "poor souls" seem to be doing a find job of speaking for themselves. My interest in the topic derives from two basic sources.


First, way back in around `70 or `71, my family became involved in a very similar cult called The Seed. It's leader, Art Barker, was very like the way some of these people describe the Gaulds. You can read all about that in the Seed Discussion forum right here on this site. Hell, you can even find avid lifelong supporters of Art and the Seed who sound remarkably like you.

I think Art may have been even a little bit more off kilter than Joe Gauld, as the big government money and successful business people who initially collaborated w/ him gave him the bum's rush after about 4 years and set up shop under a new banner; Straight, Inc.

And this is the other prong of my continued interest in the issue. I don't care so much about what happened to my family 30 odd years ago. I care that you well intended but severely misguided people are inflicting the same destructive "treatment" on a new generation and doing it on my dime. That's just wrong. And I intend to get the word out, to foster meaningful, productive dialog on the topic and, ultimately, to do my small part in putting an end to public support and protection for these harmful practices.

Ginger, I respect and admire you for trying to make this a better world for the next generation.  It is quite humorous that HydeFan keeps admonishing people for speaking the truth because one of the sayings at Hyde is, "Truth Over Harmony" in other words don't worry about keeping harmony, rather it is important to speak the truth and put yourself out there.

I agree there are legitimate concerns for the teachings and indoctornation of Joe Gauld.  As he gets older he seems to be more out of control if he CANNOT CONTROL.

Let us not forget Hyde is now in the public sector ie DC, New Haven.  Hyde recently opened up another "Charter School" in Oakland California and is also in the process of opening up one in NYC.  I think it is of the utmost importance to inform the school system of NYC about Hyde's practices and destructive patterns.  If you have any ideas, let the rest of us know.

[Anonymous]

Ginger, when you "google" Hyde on the web, only Hyde's site comes up along with some other marketing materials.  Formits is the only site where both sides can give an honest opinion about the school and it is available for all to see.

[Antigen]

I think that's because Hyde hasn't been mentioned quite as frequently around here as some other places. Contrary to popular belief (smack talk) it's actually sort of rare for anyone around here to just spout a bunch of baseless, negative smack about any school. Baseless positive bullshit and smack about the critics are another story entirely.

In any event, as the discussion gets more substantial and interesting and people around the net link to it and search on the term more often, it'll rise in the rankings.

That's another of those little vindications of mine. I believe in a laissez faire approach to almost everything (consistent w/ the old axiom that it is wise to choose one's battles carefully!) And, so far, my doing absolutely nothing wrt marketing has consistently outperformed the industrie's million dollar marketing budgets.  :rofl:

Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!

--Andi, domestic goddess