I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m

[Anonymous]

and all white artist from new york  paint the same picture.

[Antigen]

Thanks, Helen. I apreciate the vote of confidence. You mean it wasn't all just my imagination after all? LOL

Check out this gem:
http://www.isaccorp.org/khk/openmeeting1.jpg

Aside from a few gramatical improvements, this might have been written by Lybbi herself.

Here's the thing, though. I don't know if any of the rest of you know anything much about LIFE. What I know of it comes to me from having gone to school w/ a couple of LIFErs. Like the old/new (non NIDA funded) Seed, it seemed a little more laid back.

For example, 5th phase LIFEr girls were allowed to wear makeup and even to go on permissions w/ approved non LIFErs. I remember that from the Seed, too. My sister (cir `78 or so) had a good friend who wasn't a Seedling. Such a good friend, in fact, that she was willing to go down to SR 84 for an intrusive and just plain creepy checkout meeting in order for my sis to be allowed to associate w/ her. Straightlings were forbiden to even talk w/ LIFErs, but there was no such restriction on them. They thought it was weird.

But these are very minor differences. Like the difference between one location or timeframe and another. The similarities are just overwhelming. Especially when contrasted w/ what we like to call "the real world."

But some of these folks, my brother included, are still into the kool aid to a degree that they can't allow themselves to see that.

If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs,
you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors,
shall all become wolves.  It seems to be the law of our general
nature, in spite of individual exceptions.


http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, 1787

[Anonymous]

yea, yea, yea all the same and this rolex i got downtown for 40 bucks is the same as the real ones the guy told me so it must be true

[Nihilanthic]

Guys do you have to piss on our legs and call it rain?

Stripsearching is and will always be humiliating and degrading. And when something makes a point of humiliating and making people to feel powerless, last I checked thats called abuse?

The thing that REALLY kills me is the standing assumption that all are druggies... plenty of them were sent for other reasons or NO reason, like Mrs. Handbasket here.

 :roll: but yeah, I guess digital penetration of an adolescent child's sexual orfifaces and the degredation and powerlessness with it is part of the whole stepcraft bullshit, right?

God is a concept by which we measure our pain.
--John Lennon, British songwriter and member of "The Beatles"

[Antigen]

On 2005-09-23 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"another know it all that was'nt there. Don't just assume things. I was in the Seed and I will never speek of Straight, 'cause I was never there. "

Hey dip shit. Yeah, I'm talkin' ta' you! And don't go bawling about the rough treatment. You know very well you've said worse than that to captive little girls, spit flyin', temples throbbing. Did ya' get off on it?

There are currently over 350 topics on the Seed just in this forum, plus a few tangental references in some of the others. Then there's Wes Fager's exhaustive research. Go ahead, go to http://thestraights.com/ and search on The Seed.

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic that I have to be the one to tell you this, but what went on there, what you saw and who you saw, uh... it didn't stay there. Secrets have a limited shelf life.

If you want to go on believing that the Seed was a singular, unique and beautiful thing, you'd best sell that modem. You won't be needing it much.

Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.

--Scott Tillinghast

[rjfro22]

Dip-shit        Real nice way to talk to someone.
You were't in the Seed,  What's your problem,  they didn't let you in.

[Antigen]

Where do you think I learned it? :rofl:

A year from now, I'll be very surprised if there is not some grand square in Baghdad that is named after President Bush.



--Pentagon advisor, Richard Perle, September 22, 2003

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-23 17:47:00, Nihilanthic wrote:



 :roll: but yeah, I guess digital penetration of an adolescent child's sexual orfifaces and the degredation and powerlessness with it is part of the whole stepcraft bullshit, right

Bill W. said it, so it must be OK......

[Antigen]

On 2005-09-21 08:45:00, John Underwood wrote:

No one here, not even the most adamant Seed haters, remembers the staff actually hitting anyone, yet fuelaw claims he was ?beat-up? by staff,...and more than once, both in Miami and Fort Lauderdale. Does this not give you cause to think about, question the validity of his claims?

No, it doesn't. See, your memory of the whole thing is so different from mine and from that of others. You want to call somebody a liar? When you first started posting, didn't you say the Seed had always been voluntary?

I'll stop just barely short of calling you a liar. In order to lie, you have to know what the truth is and consciously decide to say something different. I don't think that's the case. I think you believe it.

The question is why? I think it's because you held a glorified position in that cult. It made you important and loved and needed. What you don't seem to want to understand (you must put some effort into not knowing it, it's that obvious to the rest of the world) is that being affiliated w/ Seed is nothing to brag about.

Again, I mean it as sincerely as I've ever meant anything when I say that I know your intentions were good. Probably still are in whatever capacity you're still inflicting the program onto others. But you were and are the face of the Seed, which is a monster to a lot of people.

Nope, you're not a liar as far as I know. What you are is a bullshitter, and you're your own best customer.

Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
--Edward Everett

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous

[John Underwood]

Hello again Ginger,
No, I never said The Seed was voluntary. Ginger, I was there via court order. Left to my own
device(s), I would never have entered rehab.
Well,.. never's a strong word, ...I certainly wouldn't have at that particular time in my life.

[John Underwood]

...and yes Ginger, my memories are quite different from yours, though I'm sure the fact that you were still in elementary school and I was in my 20s has nothing to do with the clarity of the memories, right?
I was at a family reunion a number of years ago, hadn't seen a lot of relatives in decades. It was strange how my aunts, uncles and cousins who were much older than me remembered things from when I was 7, 8, 9 years old so much differently than me. At the time, it never occurred to me that they were full of shit, hell, I actually believed them. Thanks for setting me Straight. (or do I mean setting me Seed, it's so damn confusing)

[GregFL]

What a disjointed thread.


Everyone take a deep breath.


Two Points.


Helena Handbasket (luv the name)  Mrs. Peterman did almost every intake at the St Pete Seed, including mine early described as threatening me with Juvy if I didn't sign myself in for the 3 day "peek".  The seed started off, at the very beginning, violating the first and most contradicted rule. She then went on to be the head beehive in charge of intake at Straight, Inc., and then of course you know the rest, took the Seed model and created Life which further branched out into seed type programs still in existence.  The Seed lives!  KILL THE MONSTER!!! lol.


Second, the clothes thing. I have no idea where the clothes all went, but they indeed were confiscated when you went in, and my sister indicated a long long time ago that other people were wearing her clothes. John, just what was the procedure with the confiscated clothes anyway?

One more point..  Tom S.  Your story. I believe you heard it and believed it, but first lets clear up the "THC" thing. There was no such thing as street Thc, ever. However, early in the 70s animal tranquilizers (real pcp) was sold as THC, and then later some strange snortable concoctions were sold as THC...some of them contained PCP for sure, but they all looked different and they indeed were dangerous.I had one of the worse experiences of my life on the stuff.

But liquidating your brain? Comn..that story sounds like one of the many urban legions passed around. If the girl sat there with half her face paralyzed and a brain disfunction, and Art barker was blaming this on drugs in a punch bowl..I think the story indeed does need further skeptical investigation. What about the rest of the people who drank the punch?  What really was wrong with this girl?  Tom S., you are a doctor, but that doesn't automatically make your story believable. I am not suggesting any malice, just that maybe you are repeating a story that really at the heart of it has some real problems associated with it. Use your skills as a doctor and investigate your own story for  a second.

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-23 20:57:00, John Underwood wrote:

"...and yes Ginger, my memories are quite different from yours, though I'm sure the fact that you were still in elementary school and I was in my 20s has nothing to do with the clarity of the memories, right?

I was at a family reunion a number of years ago, hadn't seen a lot of relatives in decades. It was strange how my aunts, uncles and cousins who were much older than me remembered things from when I was 7, 8, 9 years old so much differently than me.

I think there is a point in here. Of course we all have different memories, because we view the experience from different perspective. Now you John, and correct me if I am wrong, viewed it as your savior at age 20 or so and thought that you should help all "druggies"  have the same savior as you did.

Unfortunately, many many of the thousands that were forced into the seed neither wanted or needed to be saved. The basic premise that the seed was good whether you needed it or not was flawed at the core.  Can you at least see that now, that for many, we neither wanted or needed it and it ended up being a destructive force in our lives? That many people's families became so devisive over the issue that they never fully recovered?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-23 15:36:00, Antigen wrote:

"Sorry, sorry, Robin. Didn't mean to leave you out.

Thanks Antigen -- I was starting to feel soooo alone...and it was like, freaking me out...being alone and all... :razz:

RMartin

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-23 22:21:00, GregFL wrote:


One more point..  Tom S.  Your story. I believe you heard it and believed it, but first lets clear up the "THC" thing. There was no such thing as street Thc, ever. However, early in the 70s animal tranquilizers (real pcp) was sold as THC, and then later some strange snortable concoctions were sold as THC...some of them contained PCP for sure, but they all looked different and they indeed were dangerous.I had one of the worse experiences of my life on the stuff.

BULLS***!! - you have NO IDEA what you're talking about, OK?  Don't be so naive - There were so many who manufactured and manipulated all the drugs on the street... take it from ME.  I KNOW what went down!  How dare you speak about something you know NOTHING about! Sorry to hear about your "Bad Trip" - get on board w/ the others... Nuf said! RM