Author Topic: I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m  (Read 28990 times)

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Offline Stripe

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2005, 10:25:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-22 13:49:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Why are you making this so friggin complicated.

Yes they did a search whenever anyone came on the program to see if the person had drugs on them.



Do you get it yet?



You are implying  that you were searched inappropriately at straight.  





Plain and simple.
br>

The End."



I beg to differ with you.  My bother and I were in SR 84 in Ft. Lauderdale begining March 13, 1973.  He was searched, I was not.  His clothes were taken and worn by male staff members, including John Underwood.  I saw my bother's clothing on John with my own eyes. My bag was searched but my clothes were not stolen.

APPARENTLY there were no hard and fast rules that I can see.  That's where the problem lies - it was all arbitrarily enforced.  Everything about the seed program was arbitrary.  That's why we have such differing experiences. Was the arbitraty enforcement of strip searches part of the control mechnaism? Probably; it makes sense to me. That's one of the mechanisims used to control prison populations.

That it was so arbitrary and we have such differeing experiences should be enough for all of us to question the validity of the entire experience.  It's like that George Orwell novel, 1984 - where some of us are more equal than others.  

Don't get me wrong, it's not like I feel left out because I didn't get searched. At this juncture, I'm really glad I was less equal than the others.

The whole inequity of experience is kind of creepy when you think about it.  What exactly were the criteria to search a kid? I mean, for my bother and I - we came from the same house, same experience, same family - so it figures that we should have been treated the same.  

Was there even a criteria?  Or was it used as  the "great equalizer" ?  Or, given Jalongs latest statements about her pre-seed rape (and jalong I mean no disrespect), were searches done because someone wanted to check out the "goods" on another kid?    

And, if the searchers did find dope, what was the protocol? Was that arbitrary, too?   Was it flushed, burned destoryed or used?  Was it turned over to the police or held as "evidence" ?  [ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-09-23 07:30 ][ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-09-23 07:33 ][ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-09-23 07:37 ]
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2005, 10:32:00 AM »
mabe the mustache just turned everyone off nd they didn't want to search you :rofl:
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Offline Stripe

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2005, 10:35:00 AM »
you like me... you really, really like me....

I knew it all along. :cool:
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline GregFL

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2005, 10:41:00 AM »
Well, in St Pete, it was universal, the strip search, and the rare instances they found anything they held it and threatened to turn it over to the police if you misbehaved.
There was some flack about this in the early press.


Ft Luaderdale, sorry you are not liking my writing style, but this is me..what you read is what you get.  I am trying to be as honest, straightforward, and open minded as I can be. I hope you are striving for the same goals.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2005, 10:51:00 AM »
Ditto :grin:
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Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2005, 11:06:00 AM »
Well, my dear brother seems to be under the impression that it all depended on how willingly one signed themselves in. And that makes sense in the context of strip search as a means to humiliate and break one's spirit.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base.
-- Dave Barry

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline John Underwood

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2005, 11:53:00 AM »
It has been suggested to me that I tone down that which can be interpreted as inflammatory rhetoric. I agree. (success not guaranteed, however)  I?ve also been asked to directly respond to questions, allegations, accusations. I agreed. I believed, and still do, it?s a good idea.
But now I have a question. At what point do I draw the line?
It occurred to me, in reading Stripe?s above post, the potential for allegations is infinite.
Stealing and wearing other peoples? clothes is a perfect example. Initially, I believed that the difference between legitimate, credible accusations and/or questions would be obvious to anyone. It goes without saying that was ridiculously naive on my part, even stupid.
So, at what point do I draw the line? The answer, of course, is up to me, but for the record, I have no intention of exhuming, resurrecting and hiring Roberto Clemente to field those statements that come from so deep in the outfield I have no interest in even attempting to field. (that wasn?t too inflammatory, was it?)
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Offline John Underwood

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2005, 12:08:00 PM »
Ooops, in my haste, I forgot to answer one of Stripe's questions that was legit.
At Fort Lauderdale (SR84) confiscated drugs were keep in a safe, w/o any kind identification as to it's origin attached. The City of Davie Police Dept. came, (at their discretion as to when, etc.), and picked up the drugs. Elsewhere, I really don't remember, right now. I will attempt to have my memory jogged by reliable sources and get back to you.
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Offline 80's Guy

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2005, 12:08:00 PM »
wtaylorg, it's great to hear you are doing well.

As I posted once before, you and I spent several days distributing flyers in the early 80's. Also, paraphrasing Cleveland, if there was anything real about my experience, it was getting to know people like you there, who in my book were more authentic than 99% of the others.

All I can say is, you missed nothing original all the years to follow '85, to the very end.
A few of us weathered the storm and decided to be unpopular, while we made decisions that went against "staff" simply because they continued to promote the old party line that a real education was "bullshit," unless you had a "calling" like certain members that seemed to come from a line of doctors or lawyers. Or better yet, according to the top dog, "if you had that unmistakable aura of a politician or some other high ranking member of society, then you should go to school, just don't forget who made you.? IMO so much of it was about imaginary "blue blood lineage.". . . if you know what I mean.

About the only element of goodness I have remaining from all those years are certain positive points in my life, which I do attribute to the experience, regardless of human flaws, great or small. However, I have had to work hard, and continue to, trying to shed the hardened, competitive, paranoid, insecure, stressed-out edge that environment so effectively promoted. I, despite the strong opinions of many individuals who post, do not hate or resent anyone there, but I do feel sorry for them because despite (as anon wrote above the "unusual closeness") almost all of my "friends" there hardly knew people like you or me at all. I hate to quote popular culture, but when it came to the relationship between that group and me, I am reminded of Madonna's song "Nobody Knows Me." The same is true for me not knowing them.

I would like to believe that if they had really listened to what they were preaching things would have ended radically different, but many of the ones preaching had tremendous egos, so what can we expect, right? The worst for me was feeling the loss of friends at the very end. Without getting too overdramatic, I spent several nights in tears wondering if the emptiness I had been left with would ever go away. I can forgive, but am aware that those in power knew that their selfish decisions would unravel a wave of pain for so many of my friends who were so blind to manipulation and deceit on the part of the leadership. It took me at least one year to start seeing the "clear as day writing on the wall." But it was beautiful to wake up one morning and feel really free. The irony is of course that I thank all the ones who brought it all down because they did us one hellofa lifetime favor. Thank You wherever you all ran to. Obviously, I do not believe my version is the absolute Truth, but the funny part is that it no longer has to be for me to be free.

I know of one case that, IMO, couldn't live without the "falsely imposed structure" and threw himself in what I would consider a religious cult, within one year of the experience. I, on the other hand, have not gotten over an uneasiness with being a part of any group.

For you it was leaving that lifted the fog. For me it took witnessing the final days, when all the key players had had enough time to settle in to a comfortable place, where they could really start playing games with peoples' lives and loyalties. The myth died for me when not soon after that, I realized I never really wanted to be there or even wanted to ever know most of those people. They were very different than who I was and how I wanted to live my life. Perhaps, like you, I should have had the guts to walk away a long time ago, but. . .no regrets at this point, just working on a new place I can call my own.

I have decided, in fact, that except for one or two people that were always transparent about their lives and did not try to manipulate me or the way I looked at them, I want very little to do with the people I knew from that era. Actually, for the first time I really am applying the saying, which they taught me: "We are not really good for each other, so you go along your way, and I will find the road to where I want to be . . ." Best Wishes and Good Luck On Your Journey.  ::rainbow::  ::rainbow::
  [ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-23 08:48 ][ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-23 09:06 ]
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Offline Stripe

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2005, 04:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-23 08:53:00, John Underwood wrote:

"It has been suggested to me that I tone down that which can be interpreted as inflammatory rhetoric. I agree. (success not guaranteed, however)  I?ve also been asked to directly respond to questions, allegations, accusations. I agreed. I believed, and still do, it?s a good idea.

But now I have a question. At what point do I draw the line?

It occurred to me, in reading Stripe?s above post, the potential for allegations is infinite.

Stealing and wearing other peoples? clothes is a perfect example.

So, at what point do I draw the line? The answer, of course, is up to me, but for the record, I have no intention of exhuming, resurrecting and hiring Roberto Clemente to field those statements that come from so deep in the outfield I have no interest in even attempting to field. (that wasn?t too inflammatory, was it?) "


So is it true or not? I don't think asking you whether this occurred is such an "out there" question. Please don't try to make me look crazy because you won't or can't yet acknowledge what you did.

I don't suppose there is any way you could answer this question, although it's not intended as a trap.  Perhaps it is best to leave it alone since it is obvious that there will be no acknowledgment. But I find your refusal to "exhume, resurrect, etc.", strange:  as if being accountable for your own actions is a bad thing.

As for the durgs, thanks for the answer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2005, 06:03:00 PM »
Isn't it amazing, though. We got John, Terry and (occasionally) my brother all evidently thinking it's perfectly fittin' and proper to treat us like misbehaving newcomers. Bwahahahaha!  :rofl:

All of these comforting and reasonable things were taught by the ministers in their pulpits -- by teachers in Sunday schools and by parents at home. The children were victims. They were assaulted in the cradle -- in their mother's arms. Then, the schoolmaster carried on the war against their natural sense, and all the books they read were filled with the same impossible truths. The poor children were helpless. The atmosphere they breathed was filled with lies -- lies that mingled with their blood.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2005, 06:36:00 PM »
Sorry, sorry, Robin. Didn't mean to leave you out.

God is a concept by which we measure our pain.
--John Lennon, British songwriter and member of "The Beatles"

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Helena Handbasket

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2005, 07:38:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-22 10:15:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Antigen,

You were never at the"Seed".  Straight INC. is not the seed.  The same things that happened to you at "Straight Inc. did not happen to you at the SEED.  Can you get that into your head you seem to have a problem differentiating the two.  

Maybe you shoud seek help in figuring this concept out."


I'm not trying to nose in where I don't belong, but I believe this needs to be said...

There is a problem differenating the two... actually, there is a problem differentiating maybe three, and then some.  Can you get that into your head?

In another post, JaLong brought up "Peterman" Helen Petermann.  She (Petermann) started off being a Seed parent from what I understand, but according to JaLong's post, she was doing an intake?  http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=8#133933

I'm a little too pressed for time to find out what her role was at Straight, but I believe her designation was that of "Clinical Staff".  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

From Straight, Helen Peterman, with George Ross (another long-timer) formed LIFE, Inc.  

When I first found this board, there wasn't much going on in the LIFE arena.  However, in reading threads from The Seed and Straight, I can tell you firsthand, that LIFE was the same shit, and Petermann was running it.  The only differences were that there were that church pews were substituted for blue chairs, and Mac & Cheese replaced the PB&J diet - although it depended on the host home you were in. In some, there was "No Dinner Night".

At intake, I was also threatened by Petermann - though not with Juvie, but with "Palms".  Sarasota Palms was a psych hospital, which seemed to be her favorite ultimatum... because "If you go to Palms, you know you'll never have a life with a psych history"  (I had none then, and I don't consider being pissed at lying assholes now a mental illness either.)

Same shit, different program: hours long standoff until you're forced to sign the paper, grabbed and belt-looped off to a room to be strip searched while your clothes were seam-searched, the motivating, the "Love ya, have a seat"... it's all the SAME, man!  Why can't you seem to believe that?

Hell, The Seed is still carries on today in Kids Helping Kids in Ohio - which was formed directly from the Petermann Railroad:  http://www.kidshelpingkids.com/History.html


KHK is a precise LIFE (working backward now... Straight, Seed) CLONE!  Damn, it's a strange coincidence that their parent propoganda is the same shit I found buried in my house after leaving the program in '84. http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#khk

Ominous how Barker termed it "The Seed" thirty years ago, and how it spawned.  Just like a doctor, you don't need to have the disease to recognize the symptoms.
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uly 21, 2003 - September 17, 2006

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2005, 08:02:00 PM »
another know it all that was'nt there. Don't just assume things. I was in the Seed and I will never speek of Straight, 'cause I was never there.
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Offline Anonymous

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I was going to write Dear Greg, but even titles seem it be m
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2005, 08:13:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-23 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"another know it all that was'nt there. Don't just assume things. I was in the Seed and I will never speek of Straight, 'cause I was never there. "


I've seen the Red Sox several times, but I've never seen the Padres.  Still, I bet I could describe their ball park pretty accurately, and I bet they play by the same rules.
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