Author Topic: seed'70  (Read 19631 times)

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Offline tommyfromhyde1

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« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2005, 06:45:00 PM »
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_myth2.shtml

Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.
-- John Muir

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2005, 07:37:00 PM »
I'm sorry. I must have misread. I thought you said something about having years of experience as an infectious or contagious disease doctor. Was it someone else? Anyway, I got all excited. I've spent a good deal of time in the last couple of years hanging out w/ medical professionals. And so I've learned a lot of the language and culture. Thought we might connect on that level.

Never mind. This is still worth talking about, though. . .

Quote
On 2005-09-24 15:25:00, tom s. wrote:

When the brain is becoming non-functional due to drug orientated strokes,clots,decreased synaptical response,hemmoraging,or what ever it loses its' ability to oversee the automatic care it has provided all those years.The girls' left or right side also was becoming numb and paralyzed.It was a nightmare to hear about and a nightmare to remember.


But why do you attribute this girls tragic ending to her drug use? Maybe cause your dad told it that was it? I can understand why you'd find that to be compelling. But I know a doctor who put his kid in the program. Actually, my oldest daughter owes her existance to him. I should try and find out his name so she can thank him.

Here's how that happened. I was pinned to the floor for a couple of hours when I started to get scared. The numbness in my lower body turned to pain and it started to dawn on me that I might actually be getting permanently injured.* So I lied. I started shouting out "If I miscarry, I'm gonna kill somebody!"

So they send me and the other girls back to group. Next day, they take me out of group to the little medical room in the corner. There I meet another kid's father, who was (presumably) some kind of doctor. For some damned reason, he saw fit to do a full pelvic exam in addition to the standard urin test to determin if I were pregnant. I told him I knew I wasn't, that I had just made it up to get them to quit sitting on me. Didn't phase him in the least.

Next he informs me that, due to my permiscuous sexual activity, my fallopian tubes were all scarred up and permanently blocked. I knew enough to disregard his assertion that it was due to severe infection. I had never had any sort of infection or female problems. Hadn't been anything close to easy, either. But I believed he was telling me the truth about the condition of my innards. He was, after all, a professional doctor, right?

But, more than that, he was a program believer, donating his professional services to the cause. And the cause was all about convincing us kids and each other that drugs are the biggest, worst, most frightening new threat to an entire genearation of Americans. Since that's not true, it's often necessary to make shit up. And so he did.

That's a lot of prose. But I really want you to understand what I'm asking and what I'm trying to say. I don't take it lightly that this girl died, not at all. Hell, I have teenaged daughters and older. Trust me, it's impossible to read a story like that and not shed a tear for everyone involved.

But that doesn't mean that Art &Co. are above spinning such a tragedy to serve their agenda. Not only did the girls brother suffer an unconcionable mindfuck over it, but I think maybe you have too. It's these tragic stories that justify the most untenable aspects of the Program.  And they so often turn out to be embellished or even made up out of whole cloth.


* BTW, Thom, do you remember when our sister read somewhere that you could stand on someone's most tender gut w/ one foot and, if they relaxed, it wouldn't hurt or injur them? She and I demonstrated in the livingroom, which we often used as a stage for the audience at the table. Well, that came in real handy in this instance. Fat old Lisa P. sat right on my stomach for something close to an hour. Didn't even phase me. I think it freaked staff out just a bit. That made it worth it.

No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679737898/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>P. J. O'Rourke

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Offline Thom

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« Reply #62 on: September 24, 2005, 08:26:00 PM »
No, sorry. I don't recall that.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #63 on: September 24, 2005, 11:00:00 PM »
No other comment?

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0136374069/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Andrew Tannenbaum

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Thom

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« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2005, 11:44:00 PM »
You misspelled injure?
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Offline tom s.

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« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2005, 08:46:00 PM »
Apologies to all.Maybe I was BS'ed.I cannot get the story from my mind after 34 years.I did see the newspaper article where my father was being sued (to no great help for anyone)when I was in school.Could that have been a hoax? I don't know.Art used to talk about taking great doses of niacin and how it would clean out the veins and tiny cappilaries of drug byproducts,strychnine pockets,for one.I actually believed that.Niacin DOES do just that.BUT-strychnine pockets?Very f'in doubtful.I forgot all about that.I don't really know what the story reality was.It appears to have been more of a drinking related poisoning.I have tried to check archives,but police files would probably lead the way to the answer.I do not remember following the story any furthur in 1971.How does one get into (cold case files) if in fact they had been ended and mended that long ago?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2005, 09:00:00 PM »
Go to the clerk of courts and ask them to do an archive search in the civil and criminal divisions. They'll need a date range and specific terms you're looking for, such as surnames.

First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2005, 11:43:00 PM »
Tom, you have absolutely nothing to apologize about. The inverse is true.

We have all at one point or another repeated these urban myth type stories that really are at their core bullshit but somehow the story on its face is believable because it appeals to our fears or our general belief systems.

It is the others here that refuse to review their belief of the story just because it supposedly came from the o holy seed that need to think about why they adopt that attitude.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2005, 12:27:00 AM »
Yeah, what he said. Sorry, dunno where my manners went. We all bought into a lot of bull in those days. And if you're buyin', you're sellin' too.

I honestly was stunned speechless over the niacin thing. I don't remember that from back then. But I do know of one other cult that recomends large doses of niacin for purification.

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/52392004.htm

Then I remembered that Art received some sort of award or something from a Mason's lodge in Clearwater after the Seed shut down.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... cs-08.html

Sort of `splains a lot, don't it?

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2005, 01:45:00 AM »
Ginger, I think they may have been another Art Barker, the one that got the award in clearwater. Not sure, but when that first appeared I searched the name and sure enough, an Art barker that lived in clearwater showed up.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2005, 01:51:00 AM »
Quote


http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... cs-08.html



Sort of `splains a lot, don't it?



Yes it does. The methodology of the Seed had many things in common with scientology. One difference..scientology is/was much less coercive. But the us/them mentality, the exclusivity, the special powers, the one and only way to becoming straight, all that bull is in there.
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Offline marshall

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« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2005, 04:17:00 AM »
"Scientology fanatically avoids any independent review or evaluation of its actions."
--------
Hmmm. Sounds familiar.
--------

"The coercion which accomplishes this defeat of "street smarts" may not be obvious. It would be a pretty ineffective group that had to control its members through blatant coercion. It is much more efficient to create a milieu in which the members indoctrinate and control themselves, and convince each other that it was all their own free choice and decision."

-------
Sort of like; "I never felt brainwashed" I suppose.
------
Here's another interesting article re scientology and thought-reform:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/7.htm
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Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. You must climb towards the Truth. It cannot be \'stepped down\'

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2005, 10:04:00 AM »
Ok, different Barker.

But I still have to wonder if the clams are the wellspring here. Or maybe not. Maybe he just came accross some helpful info about niacin compliments of the clams and wove it into his own fantasy.

I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.  I'm certainly not!  But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!  
-- Monty Python

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Offline cleveland

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« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2005, 10:07:00 AM »
A. Scientology is incredibly coercive. One of the largest private landholders, ready to sue any opponents/journalists, took over the anti-Scientology website for their own purposes. The Seed on Speed!

B. Art did recommend Naicin. We took it as oldcomers, and I remember we actually talked about "is this wrong", because it produced a head-rush and mild euphoria in addition to the skin flushing. Art believed it was good for the heart and removed toxins.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2005, 11:08:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-27 07:07:00, cleveland wrote:

"A. Scientology is incredibly coercive. One of the largest private landholders, ready to sue any opponents/journalists, took over the anti-Scientology website for their own purposes. The Seed on Speed!



B. Art did recommend Naicin. We took it as oldcomers, and I remember we actually talked about "is this wrong", because it produced a head-rush and mild euphoria in addition to the skin flushing. Art believed it was good for the heart and removed toxins."


Well Cleveland, that is a different type of coercion. They aren't sending people out to throw you in cars, nor do they padlock you in buildings at night, nor do you sit in wooden chairs for twelve hours a day getting screamed at and sexually humiliated.

No, the seed was scientology on speed, I am afraid you have that backwards.
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