Author Topic: powerlessness  (Read 5230 times)

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Offline the wet noodle

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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2005, 06:22:00 PM »
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On 2005-09-15 15:14:00, shady grove wrote:

"Antigen



I don't think you are intellectually dishonest, unitelligent or mean. I DO think that you are simply misinformed about this issue. "


ditto...

For someone who has dedicated her life to this issue...you really should learn the difference between treatment centers and AA/NA...
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Offline the wet noodle

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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2005, 06:30:00 PM »
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On 2005-09-15 15:21:00, Antigen wrote:

"How am I misinformed? What, specifically, have I got wrong?

As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people.   On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
--H.L. Mencken


"


AA/NA is not the same as a treatment center...period.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2005, 07:06:00 PM »
Ok, if it's not stepcraft practitioners promoting coerced participation in stepcraft, then who is it?

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys

--P.J. O'Rourke

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2005, 07:28:00 PM »
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On 2005-09-15 16:06:00, Antigen wrote:

"Ok, if it's not stepcraft practitioners promoting coerced participation in stepcraft, then who is it? "


They like to say "AA/NA doesn't endorse it, but individual NA/AA/Stepcult members might".  What bullshit.  Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Let's shout some slogans, then we'll have a song, followed by more Kool-Aid........
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2005, 09:14:00 PM »
Hello! Noodle, Shady? Where'd ya' go?

If XA has nothing to do w/ coerced participation in XA, then who the fuck is it and why are you allowing them to sully your good name like this?

I believe that relgion is the belief in future life and in God. I don't believe in either. I don't believe in God as I don't believe in Mother Goose.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2005, 09:23:00 PM »
You seem to have all the programmed lingo. Are you sure you weren't a staff member? Blah. Blah. Blah.
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Offline Withdraw

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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2005, 03:04:00 AM »
[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2005-09-22 22:56 ]
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Offline Dr Fucktard

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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2005, 07:52:00 AM »
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I have never felt or considered myself powerless over anything but red tape and other people.

The only thing that I consider myself powerless over is my filipina's tight pussy!

Sure, that hot young bitch costs me an arm and a leg, but she's MORE than worth it to me.
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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2005, 08:05:00 AM »
I'm Here! I have to sleep and work sometime  :smile:

Ok, I'll try to use your language to explain this.

XA has nothing to do with forced participation in XA. Who is responsible?..I don't know, I believe I asked you this earlier. I don't know why law enforcement began sending DUIs to XA meetings. My suspicion is now that it's an economical decision. Shut down detoxes and treatment centers (accept for the private ones-with their own funding-that have carte blanche to treat people as they see fit) and send them all to XA...rooms of people with no formal training in helping people detox.

Sully my good name? My name ain't in this. XAs do not take a stance on this at all. And there ain't nobody to stand up and say "stop". It's just a bunch of individuals giving there opinions, like me here.

Stepcraft/stepcult to use your clever terms (I really like these words, I don't know why) seems to you to mean ANYBODY talking about the 12 steps. But you really must learn to distinguish for-profit, business tag-alongs from the true not-for-profit organizations to speak about this intelligibly. This, I beleive is our only sticking point now, IMO.
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Offline the wet noodle

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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2005, 10:05:00 AM »
Antigen,

I just realized that we agree on more than I thought...

We all (Shady, You and I) agree that forced particpation in XA is BAD.

We (Shady and I) are just saying that XA is ALWAYS  completely voluntary...but its "for profit" spin off's are not. some of these spin off's endorse XA...but XA does not endorse these spin offs.

You say that it doesn't matter b/c treatment centers are often run or endorsed by PEOPLE in XA... that is true...

But the problem is that XA does not have any leaders...there is no way to "call off the dogs"...I just show up to church basements a few times a week and share with a group... I have no power over fellow XA members

I will also agree that there are a lot of power hungry, facist, egocenterd XA members.... but once again I have no control over these folks...

My only power to help the siutation is to lead by example...and I do not endorse ANY form of forced endoctrintation into the steps... the steps simply do not work that way....so the point is moot..as we ALL know..anyone forced to work the steps...will not work the steps...so all of these people forcing folks to work the steps are misguided at best...or trying to make $ at the worst...either way forcing folks to work the steps doesn't work...and I (and Shady) are against it...

If you want help fighting some of these horrible abusive tratement centers...then let me know because I am willing to help in any way I can...
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2005, 11:23:00 AM »
Well, I think ya'll are being extremely niave about this. You should look into the organizations and PACs who have lobbied for forced drug screening and forced treatment for the past couple of decades. And look specifically at what kinds of arguments they have used to convince policy makers to coalesce. It's just exactly the same script that you use to defend the stepcult; it saves lives (where's the proof? your personal belief or faith is not proof); failure to force these creatons into XA indoctrination (the only way, according to the proponants) is tantamount to a death sentence; etc.

You said yourself you think our ctiticism, or even critical discussion of the stepcult might be killing people. And I'm surprised you said it, too. Not because I didn't think you'd buy in on that level. I think you've both bought in hook, line and sinker. But because you're both very intelligent people and pretty keen on the opposing case and I just thought you'd know better than to try it in this venue.

Behold! The power of groupthink to cloud your good judgement.

But that's just the sort of thinking that you and the stepcults promote and very self rightiously defend. And it's just the type of argument the politicos find so compelling. No, it's not the money. Trust me, they're making it hand over fist just as they always have. See, with this kind of faith they can do all sorts of horrible things to people w/ the leave of their own concience.

But you say "No! It's not XA, it's not XA!.... ok, well, maybe it is, but don't ask me to do anything about it. Just don't you go around saying out loud that it is XA doing these things, even though it is. You might kill somebody!"

I give up. You're right. We're never going to agree till you go out and acquire some kind, enjoy it and discover that you're not really powerless. Just one note of caution. Before you do that, make sure you've dispelled the very dangerous belief that just one drink, just one toke, just one pill will set you on an inexorable path to death and distruction. THAT is a powerful lie that can ruin a person.


You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Straight_Inc_Alumni/' target='_new'>Kady

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Offline shady grove

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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2005, 11:33:00 AM »
Your suggestion is I smoke dope?

Ok, antigen, I TOTALLY get where you're coming from. But you are misquoting and misconstruing. Your are double-speaking and back-pedaling.

Unfortunatley, you are doing exactly what you accuse us of.

But you're right...this ain't going nowhere.

PS- Since you've shared so much with us, I'll tell you that it's been months since I've been to a meeting. I am not concerned that I will use drugs or die. But I do feel there is something I need that is missing.

I'm done.
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Offline the wet noodle

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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2005, 11:35:00 AM »
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On 2005-09-16 08:23:00, Antigen wrote:

"
But you say "No! It's not XA, it's not XA!.... ok, well, maybe it is, but don't ask me to do anything about it. Just don't you go around saying out loud that it is XA doing these things, even though it is. You might kill somebody!" "


That is not quite what I said Antigen...I said that XA is ALWAYS voluntary...there are just some FOLKS in XA that have other ideas...that is a big difference... comparing me to those folks is pretty unfair...I have no control over them... but I CAN say that the XA program specifically states that it must be a voluntary step...something that some folks in the treatment industry do not understand...or do not care about b/c they are after $

There no leaders in XA we are just a bunch of ordinary folks who meet in church basements a few times a week...

As for my other beliefs about you saying bad things about XA and its harmfull effects...well...I am done with that tact...we will just agree to disagree...
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Offline the wet noodle

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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2005, 11:51:00 AM »
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On 2005-09-16 08:23:00, Antigen wrote:

"I give up. You're right. We're never going to agree till you go out and acquire some kind, enjoy it and discover that you're not really powerless. Just one note of caution. Before you do that, make sure you've dispelled the very dangerous belief that just one drink, just one toke, just one pill will set you on an inexorable path to death and distruction. THAT is a powerful lie that can ruin a person."


Don't be a druggie friend Antigen  :smokin: I have no problem with others smoking up... but to tell me to smoke up and that I am not powerless...that is just silly...you know nothing about me or my story...

I have no problem with you smokin up....why do you care if I do not? You say that you don't care...but you seem pretty threatened by folks who identify as addicts...why is that?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »
okay, i'll bite. what's your story?
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