Struggle with guilt, was it that bad?

[Carmel]

I have a question, maybe some of you can understand how this feels.

I cant help but feel this weird guilt when I talk about the program, or read others posting.  As if I am questioning, was it REALLY that bad? Was beltlooping REALLY that abusive?  Was it all just lightweight stuff that we may be turning into this horrendous injustice?

Of course, I know the answer to all these questions, save the last one, is yes......it really was that bad.  I just cant seem to shake that almost primal response of shame and guilt I have for saying so, or even reading so.

I have this same problem also with talking about other things in my life that were wrong or abusive.....as if I should not be saying them because they really werent that bad.  Like I feel in my mind that  am trying to blow things out of proportion.  But how do you blow things like molestation out of proportion?  its almost like i am secretly accepting these things inwardly, but trying to play a part outwardly for people who feel worse about what happened to me than I really do.

Even posting on this board, its like I SAY it was awful...but do I really FEEL that it was awful?

Does anyone have this?  Does anyone understand?

  [ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-09-11 13:25 ]

[Anonymous]

I think it's a degree of Stockholm Syndrome, kind of identifying with and sympathizing with your captors/abusers.  It's not uncommon amongst survivors of abuse.  Also, remember that we had it drilled into our heads at the time, that this was acceptable, even desirable treatment for us as teen "druggies".  Y'know, we "needed the Tough Love" that Straight gave us, so how could it have been that bad?  I mean, comparing it to Auschwitz or Abu Graib, no, it wasn't that horrendous, but by pretty much any other comparison or standard, it was very, very fucked up.  Do you think that any "guilt" you may be tempted to feel when reading or posting here is kind of residual effects of the mindrape?  Like "who am I to trash this program that cares about me enough to have me sat on by five other kids and feed me nothing but peanut butter and keep me awake for days on end?"  Kind of sick, but that's what these mindfuck facilities do to people--give them all kinds of weird complexes that tend to linger years after the events.

[groovy1634]

It'd hard for me to explain, but I go through similar feelings. Then I tell myself that if Straight was the answer to my pain, I would not have walked out. I was in in 91'...the abuse was emotional...constantly. I saw restraining everyday, and I personally believe that it was used abusively.  I know clients shortly before my time were treated 10x worse than I ever was. Yes, Straight, inc. was an abusive, seedy place no matter how I look at it, even now.

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[ This Message was edited by: groovy1634 on 2005-09-11 13:59 ]

[Carmel]

On 2005-09-11 13:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I think it's a degree of Stockholm Syndrome, kind of identifying with and sympathizing with your captors/abusers.  It's not uncommon amongst survivors of abuse.  Also, remember that we had it drilled into our heads at the time, that this was acceptable, even desirable treatment for us as teen "druggies".  Y'know, we "needed the Tough Love" that Straight gave us, so how could it have been that bad?  I mean, comparing it to Auschwitz or Abu Graib, no, it wasn't that horrendous, but by pretty much any other comparison or standard, it was very, very fucked up.  Do you think that any "guilt" you may be tempted to feel when reading or posting here is kind of residual effects of the mindrape?  Like "who am I to trash this program that cares about me enough to have me sat on by five other kids and feed me nothing but peanut butter and keep me awake for days on end?"  Kind of sick, but that's what these mindfuck facilities do to people--give them all kinds of weird complexes that tend to linger years after the events."

You know, thats the thing....I certainly dont feel as if Straight were actually GOOD for me or that I deserved it, rather that however bad it may have been....I dont deserve any sympathy or understanding for it. And I know that doesnt make sense, one should go hand in hand with the other, typically.  The break is at myself, not the institution.   I know it was wrong but thats just too bad, kind of a thing.  Which leads me to sometimes question, was it wrong?  Its so complex, I never have really sat down and deconstructed it like this.  I am also certain that the actual mindraping plays a very large role, the threats that were drilled into us if we rebelled against any aspect of the program.  I feel free today to speak in ill favor of of the program, but I will keep one eye on the door while doing it.

Groovy, you are so right....I never looked at it that way....that if it were alright, I wouldnt have risked my life to get out.   I wouldnt have been so dilligent in making sure I wasnt found, whatever the cost....and that I remained in hiding long enough so that I couldnt ever be taken back.  I wanted to be written off.

[Anonymous]

Carmel, what is your sun sign?

[Carmel]

Aries

[Anonymous]

Mmmm.....

[the wet noodle]

Great post Carmel...it really touched a nerve with me...

I think that the mind forgets and minimizes certain events to protect itself. If I could be in touch with the strength of the feelings that I had when I was in that hell hole...well I might kill myself...So while I can recall what happened...it sometimes doesn't seem as bad as it should...or at least how bad it would sound to someone else

Also, I think that it takes self esteem to say... "I do not deserve the way I was treated" it is a whole lot easier for me to see how fucked up it was for Str8 to treat YOU bad than it is to say how bad it was to treat ME bad...so sometimes I feel guilty or weird criticizing Str8 for what it did to me... that is why I love this site...by seeing how bad Str8 treated you it has helped me to see how bad it treated me...

This touches on what I think is the biggest affect that Str8 still has on my life today...my low self esteem...no matter what I accomplish in life (and I have accomplished a lot) I often still feel like a piece of crap...I think that my years in Str8 were a major cause of this...

Str8 was DESIGNED to take our self worth and beat it into the ground...

Fuck Str8

 ::dove::

[starry-eyed pirate]

Yes,str8 put a spell, a curse on us.  a very powerful guilt trip.  Guilt in a very subtle form.  The subtlest things are the most powerful.  Guilt comes from comparing what is, with what you want it to be.  

Str8 played on the dynamics of your mind.  Suggested to you that you were guilty of not bein' who you should have been.  It was easy for them to do once all the physical and emotional restraints started to take their toll.  Whenever we stopped to jus' catch our breath from bein' tired, when ever we wanted to sleep in group they advanced their disease upon us.  This guilt you feel was placed deep within you while you were mentally raped,  You and i both.  The guilt is only a suggestion to your mind.  It is not the truth.  It has always been a lie.  See how Str8 manipulated us.

See, what i'm tryin' to say is that guilt only exists in the comparing of what is real, with what is not.  Guilt is an ideal you can't live upto. You want a certain thing and you can't reach it.  Your arm jus' aint long 'nough.  Str8 invaded our minds with the guilt of our own lost dreams.  (They took what was natural and tried to control it.)  

One of Str8s' main weapons was the heavy, heavy guilt.  But it is jus' a trick, it doesn't reeeeeaaaly exist.  It is an illusion.  It is an illusion that has been set like a trap.  The "system" fears what is natural.  The "system", of which Str8 is at the heart fears the truth.  

Jus' stop comparin' who you are with who Str8 told you ,you should be.  They were wrong.  You are free.

 ::dove::  ::dove::  :skull:

[Antigen]

Maybe I get what you're trying to say. For a good many years, I never bothered trying to explain it to anybody. It's just too hard to describe what was going on. Taken all by themselves, those little things like beltlooping, singing silly nursery rymes, motivating and such just don't seem that bad. And they're not. But taken all together in the context of the super vigilant snitch culture entheusiastically supported by parents, cops, courts and, it seemed, the world, yeah, it was pretty fucked up.

I survived it, though, and have built a pretty good life for myself. I don't want or need any sympathy. What I'm after is a broader public understanding of how fucked up these tactics are so that people will quit buying. That's all.

Suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of Congress.  But I repeat myself.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'> Mark Twain

[starry-eyed pirate]

On 2005-09-12 09:37:00, Antigen wrote:

"Taken all by themselves, those little things like beltlooping, singing silly nursery rymes, motivating and such just don't seem that bad. And they're not. But taken all together in the context of the super vigilant snitch culture entheusiastically supported by parents, cops, courts and, it seemed, the world, yeah, it was pretty fucked up.



"

Well, Ye-ah!!

i mean the whole time your in there your under a constant assault.  And it is the subtle things that creep in on you when your surrounded by distraction, All these little subtle forms of humilliation and degradation over time begin to change your mind about who you are.  But Str8 was not only subtle but direct and confrontational as well.  Our minds were assaulted on every side.