Author Topic: A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls  (Read 3603 times)

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Offline OverLordd

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2005, 10:09:00 PM »
But what about the idea that some one has to be right. No matter how many view points there are some one is correct. Some one is correct in a court case, some one is correct in a arguement. Always some one is right.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2005, 10:18:00 PM »
Maybe, that is the idea  we need to break for our world to make a jump in elvolution ... Maybe this  is why we can not evolve yet. It could be our ~Greatest lesson here.

I'm not saying it is, but it is a major issue in everything we do in our lives ... Who is ~right or wrong ..
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Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2005, 10:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-08 19:09:00, OverLordd wrote:

"But what about the idea that some one has to be right. No matter how many view points there are some one is correct. Some one is correct in a court case, some one is correct in a arguement. Always some one is right."


I'd say perception is ALWAYS skewed, everything is mispercieved. Our perception is never in the exact present moment, it's always off, delayed. Our whole system of experiencing the universe is inexact. And our reality, our society, our notions of right and wrong are based on these misperceptions. I'd say thought itself is always built up out of faulty judgements.

It's so great that everyone already knows how self righteous I am, I don't have to try to hide it any more.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

dragonfly

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2005, 10:26:00 PM »
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Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2005, 10:29:00 PM »
I really got a lot out of tonight's rap.
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Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2005, 10:33:00 PM »
THERE IS NEVER going to be trust or respect each other on this board or in person. I don't trust any of you unless you give me shit, and even then I might be nice for awhile but you'd better keep the gifts acomin. If there exists no higher bond or grounds between us than our own petty needs, then there is going to be fighting and bickering and backbiting. This can be seen in human nature.

Our cause is NEVER going to come unless you get out of the way of people like Ray Bradbury, Sherman Mike, Sammie Monroe, Wes Fager, and the rest of the lot of them. And I don't mean that harshly. These people stir up ambiguous controversy at best and don't really do our perceived causes any true and finalizing actions. For example, look at all the judges and officials who have passed bills and claims and the like for numerous survivors of abuse. Those people got their money, and their justice. Not here, B. and the rest of them are too busy trying to bask in the limelight of some old building they lived in for awhile. Peer review has time and time again suggested to these less than stable Straight hacks that they should back off, regroup and show some real genuine action.

Again, this, including this site, forum, straights.com, and the rest, is at best controversially ambiguous. There is not much quantitative information here, Wes, if you've read half of his information, is VERY careful in his wording in order to avoid lawsuits and simply because the information he wished he had, like the actual number of survivors and ex Straightlings, remains unknown. It's all qualitative and normative information that is all about value judgements and doesn't really serve to offer any archival or factual feel or genuine reaching to facts. So he's left with constantly using words like 'it appears' and 'it seems'. Unfortunately the poor old man, who is destitute like the lot of us and knows we'll see our justice in the next life or another, doesn't have alot to go on other than there are some angry folks who want to see their attackers fry for their crimes and for their lost lives.

And even we don't have our ducks in a row, none of us really know the true numbers, only an average of sorts, of all the folks in Straight. Because the files are ALL closed and unavailable to anyone who is NOT an attorney, a sergeant in the force, or a judge. Public record hardly offers light on the subjects poor Fager wants to broach. I want to feel for the guy, I do. I really wish Sembler would pay Fager for all the efforts of advertising that Fager does for our attackers. at least then we could all sleep a tad bit more soundly knowing that someone is getting right pay for all this hoopla and go nowhere b.s.

The shot rang out the day the attorney called and says, there will never be, most likely, a person who will be able to handle any case or merit against Straight Inc. or anything that it did. Unless a judge comes forward, or a president, and issues a retroactive blacklist. The policies and the bills are set in stone more or less, and people, especially politicians never do well with making more than small changes to the status quo. Even radicals recognize that a superbly high change to any policies and laws, especially those so outdate as our drug and child laws, just does not happen over night. These things really do take time.

So, in the meantime, while we realize that there is not actually a fucking thing we can do to make a dent in this brick wall of child laws and statutes and all that bullshit, we can resign ourselves to continuing the disrespect and the untrust and the lies and the backbiting. That is the one thing that remains tried and true blue in our society, the ease of use of negativity and the practical bashing, and trolling, of one another. We like it and its an acceptable form of expressing our discontent with our worlds, and if others get dragged down with us then at least we are not alone.
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Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2005, 01:28:00 AM »
i'm hot
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Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2005, 01:29:00 AM »
i'm thirsty
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Offline Anonymous

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2005, 01:29:00 AM »
hey Kool-Aid!
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Offline Antigen

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 11:07:00 AM »
Anon, you're absolutely right. Unless some people w/ very dirty hands themselves come forward and press the issue, we'll never see retribution against that relatively small handful of individuals who were directly responsible for abusing us lo these many years ago.

Fortunately for me, I don't care a whit about retribution.

Why? Cause, Straight (and The Seed and CEDU and all of it's spawns, including WWASP and all the branches and offshoots of the Roloff Homes) were not a bit out of line w/ the rest of society. They're not even anywhere near the worst or most agregious excesses in this ongoing culture war. Seriously, do you think any of us are worse off than the survivors of DEA's war on Colombian rebels? Or Bolivia's people? Or the victims of John Poindexter's and Ollie North's fun-n-games in Nicaragua?

And those are only a few of the more outrageous scandals tied directly (by design, not circumstance) to the war on certain unpatentable drugs not sold by Bobby DuPont's cronnies.

It's much broader than that, by far. And, as you note:

Quote
Even radicals recognize that a superbly high change to any policies and laws, especially those so outdate as our drug and child laws, just does not happen over night. These things really do take time.


Right now, those of us who at least recognize that we've got a big problem on our hands are at the point of just trying to get the rest of us to recognize that there is, indeed, a fucking problem. And, in a very real way, we're all somewhat complicit. So full and total retribution would be something akin to mass suicide. And nobody wants that. All I want is for our society to recognize certain mistakes in our thinking and to quit making them over and over and over again.

Is that so much to ask? Yes, it is. An awful lot. A daunting, overwhelming challenge, in fact. But hey, we quit overtly slaughtering No. American cultures, the practice of legally recognized ownership of humans and legally sanctioned wife beating. Those were pretty daunting challenges too.

And it's worth looking at the best and worst practices in history for dealing w/ these entrenched injustices. Here in America, we fought one of the bloodiest and most distructive wars in history in the course of shifting from a slave based to a wage based labour economy. In Brazil, which was even more deeply involved in the slave trade than America, they went about it differently.

Neither country has entirely eliminated the last vestigase of that evil legacy. And it's hard to say which one is better off these days. But one fairly significant indicator of racism in any country in the Western hemisphere is to look at immigrants from that country. Look around the Brazilian neighborhoods in So. Florida. You see a lot of black people there? Me either. Evidently, consensus has it that black people are better off in Brazil than in So. Florida. Maybe we could take a lesson from that.

Quit looking at this as a war to be faught and start looking at it as a prblem to be solved.

Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
                                                              Orange Country, California
                                                                  Los Angeles Times
                                                                    29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

dragonfly

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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2005, 11:29:00 AM »
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2005, 12:33:00 PM »
Antigen, Great post, If Problem solving techniques were used then some measurable headway could be made on the various issues.  To spend time and energy trying to discredit people or put them in jail can bring some real satisfying short term satisfaction but never addresses the issues.  Its like busting the drug dealers.  The cops feel good, take pictures of each other holding the stash, maybe get a promotion, but we all know it doesnt put a dent in stopping people from doing drugs.
You hit it on the head when you said "Right now, those of us who at least recognize that we've got a big problem on our hands are at the point of just trying to get the rest of us to recognize that there is, indeed, a fucking problem".  So based on pure problem solving tools:
Step 1 -- Recognize there is a problem and Define the problem (really boil it down to one sentence, write it down. i.e. Kids being sent to TBS ) This will take a lot of discussion and maybe weeks.
Step 2 Determine root cause (What is causing this to happen? Make sure you are staying focused on the proplem as it is written, it is very easy to wander off track. Uninformed parents, kids taking drugs, schools systems suck etc.)  This could take time to determine.  Its nice to have only one cause but sometimes there are many.
Step 3 Make a list of solutions (all of them).  Educate parents, educate kids, shut down the schools, let the air out of the vehicles that take the kids away etc.  Rate the hundreds of solutions and pick the top ones.
Step 4  Impliment Solutions (Impliment the top solutions)
Step 5 Measure your Success or failure (Very difficult sometimes)
Step 6 Adjust and go back to Step 3.

If these steps are followed practically any problem could be solved eventually.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2005, 12:47:00 PM »
Yes. This sounds like a very systematic political and empirical analysis. I wouldn't be surprised if you go on to write up a report on the methodical issues in our laws and bills and minds today. I agree that defining the problem, learning what our world thinks at large and all of the things other people have written about it, is definitevely the best way to start.

In fact, the procedures you just wrote down for coming up with some solutions for these issues are not far off from the empirical analysis papers. Also, it would involve peer review which for starters you would have all the peers you need right here, and more on the way if you try to get your report/article somehow published. Easier to get college publication than through normal methods by the by. I wouldn't typically give away a secret like this but this is a cause I can get in with you on.

Tell more of your thoughts here. Thanks.
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2005, 01:08:00 PM »
Not sure if I could dedicate the time to monitor and organize the responses.  I have applied these steps in industry and the results are amazing.  The key to success, for me, was to
define the problem very carefully and focus on getting to root cause at all times and constantly refer back to the problem statement (step 1) to insure all our energy is focused tightly on the problem defined.  I think Antigen would be great for this, someone who is able to see the larger picture and willing to consider all solutions even if they seem far fetched or too simplistic because they are sometimes the ones that end up solving the issues.
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Offline Antigen

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A rambling response to my troll or whomever it is that calls
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2005, 04:17:00 PM »
Well thanks, DF and Anon.

I think the consensus trance is pretty much a good and wholesome, natural part of human social life. Ya' know, like that glow you get sometimes when the band and the crowd are just in sync w/ something beautiful and powerful? Really, do you? I've heard tell of it, but never had access to anything like it since I was a little kid.

I envy people who can dance like that. I think the Program is just one method of exploiting that natural function. Personally, I'm allergic to giving over any little part of my will to a group like that.

For that reason, and many others, I don't think I'd be the best person to organize an effort such as you describe. For one thing, I change my thinking continually on the issue. If I had a single, clear, simple vision, that would be different. But the only thing of which I'm really certain is that thing about talking out in group|behind backs|to other newcomers, splits, pulls and other apostates*.

Frankly, even that has changed over time. I thought my forte was going to be in programing. And I wasn't half bad at it for as long as my focus lasted. But then came a request for tech assistance in setting up these forums. And, well, I've been pretty much enthralled with using the ap; little interest left in building it.

So that's all I'll focus my eforts on, unless I come up w/ some other bright idea. But if ya'll are onto something, then by all means do it and please let me know if there's any way in which my little one note song can play in.

*Thanks Marshall :wink:

The lust for power, for dominating others, inflames the heart more than any other passion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440607/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Tacitus

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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