hurricane victims are victims of our uncaring government

[Nonconformistlaw]

DAMN GOOD REASONS WHY SOME N.O. RESIDENTS COULD NOT LEAVE?excerpts from
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167211,00.html

Katrina Rumbles Closer to Gulf Coast
Saturday August 27, 2005

?Coastal residents jammed freeways and gas stations Saturday as they rushed to get out of the way of Hurricane Katrina?.Owners of gas stations in and around New Orleans were forced to direct traffic as lines to the pumps stretched down surrounding streets. Gas stations were running low on gas by mid-afternoon Saturday?Louisiana and Mississippi made all lanes northbound on interstate highways. Mississippi declared a state of emergency and Alabama offered assistance to its neighbors.?  

(I bet severe traffic jams and possible gas shortages may have prevented last minute departures)

?Making matters worse, at least 100,000 people in the city lack the transportation to get out of town. Nagin said the Superdome might be used as a shelter of last resort for people who have no cars, with city bus pick-up points around New Orleans?.. know they're saying `Get out of town,' but I don't have any way to get out," said Hattie Johns, 74. "If you don't have no money, you can't go."

(hmmm. I think other posters sufficiently explained this one)

 ?Some motels as far inland as Jackson, Miss., 150 miles north of New Orleans, were already booked up.?

(some may have feared finding no place to go even if they left)

?Some tourists heeded the warnings and moved up their departures, and lines of tourists waited for cabs on New Orleans' famed Bourbon Street?The problem is getting a taxi to the airport. There aren't any," said Brian Katz, a salesman from New York?.Others tried leaving but couldn't get a flight??We tried to move it up, but they told us they were all booked up," said Terry Evans of Cleveland, whose flight was supposed to leave Monday morning. "We may end up sleeping at the airport."

(some tourists probably wanted to leave, tried, and couldn?t find a way out fast enough)

OTHER DAMN GOOD REASONS I HAVE HEARD WATCHING NEWS REPORTS

Fear of looters, stayed to defend their homes and belongings.

Being Elderly?notice how many elderly were rescued in wheelchairs? Many are just to frail or ill to just up and leave at a moments notice.

[webcrawler]

Hey, NCL did you catch the shot of the elderly man and woman trying to flee in their walkers? Yeah maybe they should have walked a bit faster or something so they would not be blamed for staying.  :smile: Damn old people in their walkers how dare they not have a car with their $600 social security checks!

[OverLordd]

I am sadded that it has taken a hurricane to open up America's eyes on just how prevalant racism and classism are in this country. It's not just limited to Southern Baptists that have hate in them as one person made reference to.

I first posted comments on another thread anon because I was intimidated to share my real thoughts here. One only has to come to this board on any given day and read countless attacks on a persons race, gender, or some perceived defect of character.

Overlordd I'm not going to belittle you for your comments. I've been caught up in that cycle before around here and frankly it did nothing but make me feel even worse in the end. I know you are 17 years old so I really can't fault you. My guess is that you are just viewing the situation from your own life and may not have knowledge what it's like to live in a cycle of poverty and oppression.

I'm really sick of people always blaming the oppressed for everything and how they should just pull themselves up by their boot straps. So all the people spouting racial slurs, endorsing the killing of people, and blaming them tell me this,

Were your great, great grandparents slaves?

Did your great grandparents, grand parents, and parents grow up in a time
where they could not enjoy equal rights because of Jim Crow Laws?

Did your grandparents get sent to an all white school and have their lives threatned?

Were any of your relatives lynched for wanting their right to vote?

Did your grandparents receive substandard education under the guise of seperate but equal?

Did your poor and uneducated grandparents go on to have your parents that continued to have substandard education and therefore no hope of a good job and college education?

Were your grandparents and your parents neighborhoods bulldozed all in the name of urban renewal and herded to the projects?

Do you today live in a neighborhood where the police view you as a suspect for anything that goes wrong?

Are you pulled over in your car nonstop and searched for drugs and weapons?

Has your neighbors called the police on you for having lots of visitors because that must mean you are selling drugs instead of just maybe having a large extended family and network of friends?

Are you today being shortchanged with your education and prospects of college because of the neighborhood your school happens to be in?

I am not trying to take away from anyone elses experiences of suffering here. I know history shows us that oppression and tragedy has played a role in the lives of many regardless of race. I am just sick and tired of hearing the cruel things that have been said about the victims of this hurricane.

Why in the world are you comparing the racism of the 1960's to a hurricane right now? that makes no sence what so every. Your just fliping over and pointing at the race card to get you through.

People throughout history have shown that you can work hard and make something of your selfs in this country. Whineing and hiding get you nothing. I hold up as a example the industrial revolution and the influx of immagrents who worked hard and grew. They faced massive rasicsm, not only from people already in the country but from other groups that moved over with them. Did they whine? No they worked hard and made something of them selfs. While this may sound hollow coming from a person who has only had to work hard at a few things, but thats what happened in history.

HOW DARE YOU critizise their choices!!  

Bam, right there, how dare I critizise their choices? Their choices to stay, their choices to depend on the state? Their choices to be unprepared? I critizie their choices because their choices, mixed with other circumstances got them killed.

It's a pity you can't break the cycle of ignorance in your family Overlord, and start thinking for yourself.

This is me thinking for my self my friend. And its foolish of you to think otherwise.

I know exactly how new orleans is. It's a great city, creative and dynamic with wonderful and colorful people. what exactly did you mean by that?

I ment it as a comment on the poor infasturcture and the welfare state.

what people exactly? the poor, elderly, inferm, tourists, hotel workers, city cops, firefighters... those people?

The people that were not prepared. The people that did not leave. and dont give me that they did not have cars. New Orleans has a very good public transport system and they could of hopped a bus.

Your racism shows through your choice of words. You sound almost happy all those 'welfare blacks' are getting what was coming to them for not being as prepared as you.

The sad thing is, you aren't the only one who thinks this way. Plenty of racist white southern baptists types out there unforunately.

Your putting words into my mouth. My grandparents currently live down in New Orleans, and they are fine. They left when they were told to.

RIGHT NOW! And you are blaming them?

You misunderstand my first post. I blame the government, like all of you, but I blame the government for caring to much, and taking away the responsiblity of life. Some of the blame falls on the unprepared, and falls on the welfare state of louisiana.


You guys are all died in the wool democrats. Its rather impressive the way you seem to think I don't care just because I am spreading the blame on all involved. For those of you that say "Whats next? Blaming rape victims?" I say to you the horror of Katrina could of been avoided if only people had been prepared. Every one needed to be prepared, from the govenor, to the cops, to the people on the ground, yet someone, somewhere droped the ball. The people could of picked that ball up if they had been prepared. Saying its all the governments fault is foolish. Its not the governments job to take care of you.

I care about the people suffering sure as sure, but im not going to say is some one elses fault. Sure I will help them get back on their feet because I can't stand to see something wrong, yet I will not WILL NOT say that its all the governments fault.

[webcrawler]

Playing the race card you say? I see it as blatant racism that the people down there were left to suffer for so long.

As far as me comparing racism of the 60s to the huricane? I'm simply showing how racism continues to rear it's ugly head even today and how the treatment of people today is an after effect of our history.

My family were poor immigrants too but they and their descendants had one advantage and that was the color of their skin.

You say "you worked hard". Ever stop to think a lot of things may have come easier for you because of your skin color, being middle class,going to better schools, having health care, not living in substandard housing, being able to get a job by white employers who were thankful they didn't have to hire some "incompetent affirmative action person of color" because they want to be surrounded by people that look and think just like they do?

[Nonconformistlaw]

Overlord said -----"You guys are all died in the wool democrats."------

NO...died in the wool humanitarian, raised in an extremely republican city and family, who was always taught to earn everything myself....but that's not even the point.....

what is being said here has nothing to do with whether you are a democrat, republican whatever....you miss the point completely...its about human suffering, the likes this country has not seen happen in THIS country...its about compassion, helping people who are dying because MOTHER NATURE wrought havoc

Life is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be....there are so many reasons that are perfectly valid why people stay in poverty...but you know what, I'm not going to bother to explain it to you...your a typical teenager convinced you know it all...and you remind me of all the heartless, narrow-minded, spoiled, sheltered people I spent the past three years in law school with...who just because they lived a priviledged life...think they are entitled to criticize those who weren't handed everything on silver platter...and freely criticize people for things they have no personal experience and therefore have no right criticizing...man you sound just like those monsters....

Quite frankly, I find it rather ironic that many people I have known, and been friends with, who were in poverty or otherwise at the lower socio-ecomomic end of society...are among the kindest and most decent, hard working people I have ever known...

and if the tables were turned and you were in the middle of a disaster...they would be helping you...no questions asked....

[Anonymous]

But he's a Boy Scout! He doesn't need help from anyone! In fact, drop him off in the middle of New Orleans right now, he'll make it out just fine, he got that water safety badge.

[Nonconformistlaw]

Webcrawler said ----"Hey, NCL did you catch the shot of the elderly man and woman trying to flee in their walkers? Yeah maybe they should have walked a bit faster or something so they would not be blamed for staying.  Damn old people in their walkers how dare they not have a car with their $600 social security checks!----

I saw more shots of disabled elderly people struggling through high waters that I ever wanted to...it breaks my heart how helpless they must have felt....with no possible, realistic way to flee before the storm hit.

I guess all the people without cars should have hitchhiked, nevermind how dangerous that can be...can you imagine a mother with a few kids on the side of the road, struggling to carry items such as diapers and basic necessities, hitchhiking to get out of N.O.?? :roll:

----that reminds me---in my experience with pubic transportation, it usually follows predetermined routes within a city....you can't just tell the bus driver...man I need to get out of N.O. can you get on the freeway and take us as far from N.O. as possible, there's a hurricane coming(yeah right, that would never happen in a miilion years) :roll:

[webcrawler]

According to some people the victims down south should have made sure to pack enough groceries  :roll:

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =32&Sort=D

Yeah, that public transporation thing is a killer NCL. I wonder where they were supposed to go once they got on the buses. Apparently they had nowhere to go or they would have left.

Those damn elderly people in walkers now why in the hell didn't they have a backpack full of groceries strapped to their backs? I work with lots of seniors and they are barely eating.This is a problem all around our country too. Yet somehow they should have enough sense to pack enough food. Does it get any worse than this?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-02 21:16:00, OverLordd wrote:

You guys are all died in the wool democrats."

I cannot believe you turn this into some kind of political argument. You are truly ignorant Overlordd. It sounds like you spout rush limbaugh verbatem, so yes, I doubt you think for yourself. Your comments are so childish, selfish and ignorant, I am literally speechless. You have completely discredited yourself in every subject discussed on this forum. I have a question: for someone who knows very little, why do you talk to people like you know everything? I never thought I'd find something in common with the struggling trolls, but I see why they dislike your presence so much- you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Egg is all over your face.

[Nonconformistlaw]

Anon said----"But he's a Boy Scout! He doesn't need help from anyone! In fact, drop him off in the middle of New Orleans right now, he'll make it out just fine, he got that water safety badge."-----

That's right....I forgot....I suppose that all these people are responsible for their plight because they chose not to be a boy/girl scout... :roll:

I suppose they should have been resourceful enough to feed themselves without government aid by hunting, killing and cooking the crocodiles and snakes swimming in the contaminated waters. I also suppose that they never should have expected the government to provide clean drinking water, because surely they prepared for such an emergency by having water purification supplies on hand. :roll: [ This Message was edited by: nonconformistlaw on 2005-09-03 00:00 ]

[Nonconformistlaw]

Oh my god there blaming them for not bringing enough groceries? I cannot believe the utter lack of commen sense all the critics show by making statements like that...  :roll:
....I doubt they ever imagined that they would be away from home more than a couple days much less a week or permanently....

I'll have to check out that thread discussion tomorrow Webcrawler...If I look now I'll be up all night seething in anger...

[OverLordd]

Oh my god there blaming them for not bringing enough groceries? I cannot believe the utter lack of commen sense all the critics show by making statements like that...  

You seem to be alittle misinformed. Your supose to do that. You are support to get food and your supost to stockpile water. Yes, I say they screwed up for not getting the proper supplies.

WTF? Were these people supposed to be fortune tellers who KNEW THE FUTURE or something?  
....I doubt they ever imagined that they would be away from home more than a couple days much less a week or permanently....

Its a level 5 hurriance!!! hello!!! they knew it was coming for a week!!!

I see it as blatant racism that the people down there were left to suffer for so long.

The Federal Government is known for its inefficency. Why in the world would we expect the federal government to be effiecnt now? Not only that but we are taking about the city of New Orleans. Its very difficult to get into the city while its flooded because of the topgraphy.

[Antigen]

No doubt, the catastrophe in NOLA was about as much of a surprise as the 2nd and more successful attack on the WTC. I heard talk of it long before the storm it. In fact, a week ago tomorrow, an old friend stopped by and discussion turned to what happens if it hits NO. I was bummed, seriously I tell you! I've never been to NO. Been wishing I could steal away for a wild weekend at Mardi Gras since my best friend's big brother came home w/ a van full of beads and other groovy stuff in.... probably `73 or `74. Never managed to squeeze that in. [sigh]

Interesting comment from some FEMA/Homeland paranoia guy interviewed by Ted Kopel the other night. Ted asked the guy how he could possibly have not known about the swelling crowds of refugees at the convention center when the media had been reporting on it, even showing pictures, for days already.

The bureaucrat, incredibly, responded to the effect that, yes, they had heard, read and seen those reports, however they didn't have an authorized, approved report of it till that day. Un fucking believable! We still have just about the best, most efficient and thorough press corps on the planet, at least, when they deem to turn their attention to an issue. And natrual disasters have always been among their best areas of accomplishment. The information was, very obviously, reliable.

And this dweeb has the fucking audacity to pretend it's not his fault those people went w/o food or water for days because, after all, he hadn't received an official order to feed them? Mother fucker! That didn't fly at Nuremberg and I don't find it particularly compelling either.

If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?
--Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet

[Anonymous]

Boy, it really seems like this ought to be on the tacitus forum. Not to say that I'm not interested in the discussion, lower your fists. :lol:

[Nonconformistlaw]

I said----"WTF? Were these people supposed to be fortune tellers who KNEW THE FUTURE or something?....I doubt they ever imagined that they would be away from home more than a couple days much less a week or permanently...."

To which overloard responded--------------"Its a level 5 hurriance!!! hello!!! they knew it was coming for a week!!!"------------
_______________________________________________________________________________________

You obviously didnt get what I was saying  :roll: ...yes they knew the hurricane was coming.....I was talking about how long they would be away from their homes due to the severity of the damage...since most people have never been through a level 5 hurricane they probably could never have guessed the severity of the current situation, nor predict the LENGTH OF TIME they would be away from home due to that severity.....when packing up things to go to the Superdome they probably did bring some necessities, including food....but I doubt they brought more than a day or two's worth of supplies.....thinking they would be back home in a day or two.......

oh and one other thing.....

um...when's the last time you went grocery shopping overlord?

Your comments about stockpiling are ludicrous because you clearly dont know how much it would cost to stockpile supplies----those people who were stranded in N.O. because they had LITTLE OR NO money, could never had bought the amount of supplies your talking about because they had LITTLE OR NO MONEY....with little cash how is stockpiling even possible....