The Seed compared to Str8

[starry-eyed pirate]

Thanks, that was what i wanted to know.

i have been readin' around on this board some, but there is a lot to look thru.

i'll give ya'll a break now, but i'll be back with more questions after a while.  Thanks again and Peace.

[Antigen]

On 2005-09-04 19:52:00, FueLaw wrote:


Based on what I have read on the Straight board Straight was way more brutal than the Seed. "

That was my sense 20 odd years ago. But now I wonder. First, everybody from St. Pete branch reports that Straight like vibe at least started there. Second, I only assume what went on in group as I only ever saw the inside of the building during open meeting.

Also, we were all told how lucky we were where we were instead of [_any program_] The allegedly tougher program might be The Seed, another Straight location, Synanon or some other. As we from various programs have compared notes over the years, we've found that 1) they were all pretty much the same anyway and that 2) our impression of them has more to do w/ how well we complied internally than anything.

Me? I would never have described Sarasota as a daily horror show as some people seem to believe. And I've never really seen anyone say that it was. Just that some incidents were way ovre the top.

So I don't really know. Was the Seed really less brutal? Was there a huge difference between St. Pete and Lauderdale and Cleveland and the others?

Here's something I've always wondered about. I remember the Miami branch had a fair number of Marrialittos. WTF did they make of the program? Did any of them ever bust out w/ comparisons to Fidel's Patriot boarding schools? Or compare Art to a wannabe Che?

Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright

[FueLaw]

Ginger :

The Mariel boat lift was in 1980 which was about 6 1/2 years after Barker pulled out of Dade County. When I was there , the last few months of Dade, there were not many Cuban's or other Latinos in the program.

As far as the Seed being less brutal, based on what I have read on the Straight board, the accounts of you and many others, I think Straight was way worse. This would be based on the amount of physical and psycological abuse and the length of time spent in the program. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to praise the Seed I just think Straight was even more extreme.

[Antigen]

I think so too.

I was born a heretic. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
--Susan B. Anthony, U.S. reformer and suffragist

[JaLong]

Ginger, I went to the sight about people taking their names off of the graduated numbers from straight. I'll tell you Ginger, I knew straight was worse then the seed for the kids, ie- tv shows,news, newspapers, and then HRS ? closing them down because of abuse claims. Yet, reading what all those people wrote sent chills up my spine. Yes the seed was a rough one, but my God, straight was so much worse. We had hardly any abuse, except for 2 when I was in there (73) by parents whooping their sons. Yes, we were abused mentally, spiritually, and emotionally, but nothing like what you went through in sraight. I have often thought about suing Art Barker, but Betty and Mel need a rude awakening. Guess money has power, and since Bush is a whimp, he can't see the forest through the trees. I am glad you have that site too. It sure opened my eyes to the terror you all went through. I am so sorry you and others here had to suffer so much.

[Stripe]

On 2005-08-31 13:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Yep. They could just leave. :grin: "

The was voluntary??? Sure.  Just walk out. Get tackled and dragged back in. Saw that happen a couple of times.  Just try to walk out of an old comers house,if you weren't locked in behind two or three locked doors with sleeping guards.

Does anybody remember any person standing up any saying, "I think I'm gonna leave now?"  

A kid could leave but where does a kid end up? On the street - where they have most likely NEVER been before?  Parents were told to turn their children away. Break the will or break the family - that's the seed motto. It's completly your choice. Sure...it's completely voluntary.

And again, for those who see it as a blessing, it's another story. If I was only half as fucked- up as the greatful ones, I might have been glad to have the break in reality the seed provided. That's what it was - a break in reality.

But unfortunately, that's just not the case.

[Antigen]

Well yeah, I'd say some locations and some times in Straight were, by far and away, more physically brutal than The Seed usually was. But I never was all that effected by the physical stuff. It was the mental abuse and the effects that it had on people that always worried me.

That bit about turning families against each other. What a horrible thing to do to anybody! I got a call a few years ago from Bob K's family. After all those years, his family was dealing w/ some important life issues that he really ought to have been a part of. They told me they had called the Seed office, but weren't sure their messages were getting through and they were just grasping at straws, hoping I or someone I knew or anybody could help them make contact w/ Bob.

I don't know of anybody in Straight who gave over their family so completely and so permanently as permanently as that. In that respect, I think the Seed was, by far and away, more adept at mind fucking than Straight ever was.

But the Straight cronnies are still a matter of more concern, imo. They're quite adept at influencing public policy and opinion. Are any of you aware that we're pretty much on the verge of war w/ Venezuela? Any idea why? You'd be surprised how many names of close friends and business associates of the Semblers and Bobby DuPont come up in the last couple of decades of that saga.

That's what concerns me. Not the individual incidents of physical violence, but the profficiency w/ which this cult influences opinion and belief and how adeptly they have managed to appropriate public resources away from worthy threats like major storms to their obsession w/ what can never be; a world free of drugs they don't sell.

Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew

[Anonymous]

Fuelaw
where can i find this article about you and seed kids being beaten up, when and where was it published, who was the reporter, what was the name of article and in what publication?

[marshall]

Since we have so many Seed Testimonials of late, thought I'd post some testimonials from some other programs and groups for comparison:

Mel Sembler defends Straight:

"Responding to years of complaints from former patients, auditors cited evidence of excessive use of force, sleep deprivation, and the withholding of food and medication. Sembler denies any wrongdoing and continues to defend the program's methods, particularly against the criticisms of the St. Petersburg Times editorial board. "People thought we were taking away children's rights. But we saw it just the opposite - giving them back their rights by helping them get off drugs." In 1993, with the allegations surfacing and the program losing about $500,000 a year, Sembler closed Straight. Indeed, he speaks proudly of an ACLU lawsuit filed against Straight's Atlanta affiliate some years ago. "It just shows that we must have been doing things right," he says with a grin. Betty Sembler, herself a veteran activist in many anti-drug causes, labels the center's detractors as misguided. Anyone who fully understands the dangers of drugs, she says, will agree that drastic measures are sometimes needed."

Defenders / members of Narconon (the anti-drug program run by and based upon Scientology):

"Narconon is a very  useful program that I have personally seen salvage lives from the gutter".
 
"Narconon is the only program that, in over 76% of the cases, produces a permanent, verifiable solution to the problem of drug addiction"

"It was the knowledge I gained in Scientology that helped me to quickly stop and realize that going back to marijuana wasn't at all a good idea."

One prison official estimated that heroin use has dropped 80 percent from its former use level since the Narconon program was introduced. And justice officials outside the prison in Ensenada reported that the crime rate in the whole city has significantly dropped. Thus, Narconon has returned to the social environment in which it was founded three decades ago to continue to rescue prisoners from drug-induced oblivion.'