Author Topic: The Seed compared to Str8  (Read 9351 times)

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Offline Antigen

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2005, 12:28:00 PM »
You still beatin' your wife?

You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
--Albert Einstein

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2005, 12:32:00 PM »
Ok where is the "Greg" moderator when you need one?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2005, 05:12:00 PM »
:roll: nevermind.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Antigen

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2005, 08:07:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-01 21:01:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:

"...uhh...so i'm still pretty confused.  Maybe i should jus' ask 1 question at a time. How long was the avg. program at the Seed ??"


Sorry Pirate. I got carried away w/ Lauderdale. Is this really like a prepubescant crush as some have suggested? I do remember he was pretty good looking and all bets were on me to grow up to be a bombshell..... ewwwww! Never mind, sorry! PLEASE don't answer, any of you!

 :rofl:

From what I remember from the early daze, ppl who had been in for a year were given due shit for sitting on their asses. By the time I landed up in Straight in `80, a year was pretty normal, but coming up on 18 months was cause for concern. By `83, 2 years was not too unusual, but there was some stigma attached.

Meanwhile, in another galexy not too far away, Seedlings were embarking on decades long family style commitments. And Newton kept some inmates for 5 or 10 or, in one case that I know of, 15 years or more.

But there has always been a distinction between long term staff material and regular, rank-n-file group.

One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist



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Straight, Sarasota
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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2005, 09:35:00 PM »
Anigen said:

"Meanwhile, in another galexy not too far away, Seedlings were embarking on decades long family style commitments. And Newton kept some inmates for 5 or 10 or, in one case that I know of, 15 years or more."



"But there has always been a distinction between long term staff material and regular, rank-n-file group."

Thanks for gettin' back to me Ant but your words are so vague.  i need more specific information.  What do you mean by "decades long family style committments" and are you tellin' me that this maniac Newton kept people on their phases for 5,10 'n' 15 years.  i hope you don't mean that.  Or were these phasers who went on to become staff ??  i am very keen to learn all i can about the Seed and its' relationship to Str8.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2005, 11:12:00 AM »
Ft Laud, the question "still beating your wife" is not a reference to you REALLY beating your wife nor is it a personal insult, but rather a call for you to understand the nature of your questions to Ginger that no matter how you answer, you are left looking bad.  It is a well defined diversionary technique, not allowed in formal debate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2005, 12:46:00 PM »
Pirate,

  Well that you can read right here. A good many frequent posters to this forum spent 5 or more years as seed 'kids'. I think all the really, really long timers (like decades) were staff, but I could be mistaken.

And yes, Newton kept Lulu Courter on her phases from age 13 to 26 when she finally escaped and went into hiding. Here mother was one of those super program parents, I think she was on staff in some capacity. But Lulu didn't come out of hiding till someone else susscessfully sued Virgil. Can't remember the name of that gal offhand. But I could find it.

The Christian faith from the beginning, is sacrifice: the sacrifice of all freedom, all pride, all self-confidence of spirit; it is at the same time subjection, a self-derision, and self-mutilation.
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2005, 01:58:00 PM »
were the kids who were in the seed for 5 years voluntary or involuntary ??  i would be completely insane if i had been kept in str8 for 5 years instead of the partial insanity that resulted from my 2 years of captivity.

i assume that durin' the time when the Seed was an involuntary program that there must have been misbehavers protestin' their captivity.  How were these misbehavers dealt with ??  were these misbehavers subjected to the same sleep deprivation that misbehavers in str8 were subjected to(as in the 3hrs. of sleep per night deal) ?? thanx.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2005, 02:13:00 PM »
Yeah, my understanding is that, after they lost the NIDA funding and shut down all but the original Ft. Laud location, it was a lot more voluntary. I can't say from firsthand exp how they dealt w/ misbehavers in group. Sure wish someone who was there would speak up. But I do remember that the usual program was not more than a year or a little more up till at least `74 or so when my youngest brother and sister went in.

Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2005, 04:57:00 PM »
T'anks Ant.  Can anyone who was actually in the Seed during its' time as an involuntary program answer my question about how the misbehavers were dealt with ??  Were they put on "consequences" which would include sleep deprivation, etc. ??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2005, 05:51:00 PM »
yeah starry-eyed one i was there involuntarily and there were no official misbehaviors or official consequences and the only ones i ever saw subjected to sleep deprivation were the staff
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Offline FueLaw

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« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2005, 10:04:00 PM »
When I was in the Seed , May 1973-July 1974, we did not have names such as "misbehaviors" assigned to people who did not go with the flow. There was a segment of the people who were over 18 and placed in the Seed by the courts and if they acted up the were threatend with prison and or the group would have a come down session on them.

There also was maybe a loss of priveldges or you could be put back in your program which was called a refresher. Loss of priveledges might include not be able to work or go to school. If you really screwed up they would start you over again. This meant going back on the front row.

For younger people such as myself , age 14-15 at the time, they would bring your parents down and try to get them to beat your ass. Every now and then staff would go off on a real rebelious kid and knock the crap out of them themselves.

The come down sessions were basically feeding frenzy's in which rap leaders, staff members and the rest of the kids would take turns telling you how terrible you were, how lucky you were to be in the seed because if you were "on the streets" you would be dead, ect... The main thing they did was preclude you from advancing in the program, going home, going to school or work or graduating if you didnt go with the flow.

For those who were over 18 and in voluntarily, and I believe this to be less than 10%, during my time period, they could not do shit with. This is because those people could just get up and leave, and many of them did.

You have to keep in mind that the time periods for completing the program were way different than that of Straight.  If your parents brought you in or you were there voluntarily you had to be away from home, no communication with the outside world, for a minimum of 14 days. The average for this would probably be around 20-25 days. You would then go on a phase of the program were you either went to work or school, depending on you age, and then came to the Seed everyday after school or work. This phase would usually last 2-3 weeks and then you became an old comer. An old comer had to come in 3 week nights after school and one weekend day. After three months you could apply to graduate. This consited of literally including your name on a sign in sheet and pathetic morons such as John Underwood would determine whether you were ready for the real world. The average for the total program was probably 5-7 months.

For court ordered people, juveniles or adults, the time period was 30 days before you could be considered to go home and at least 6 months as an old comer. the avergae was probably around 10 months.

For those that would not go with the flow they simply kept you in the program longer. I was there for 13 1/2 moths on the 5 month program.  It was not unusual to see court ordered people in there for at least a year.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2005, 10:39:00 PM »
O.K. thanks for the perspective but i am still tryin' to understand.  Say a kid was under 18 and brought in by his parents.  What would happen if he tried to run for a door ??  Would he end up restrained on the floor ??  In Str8 you would end up restrained on the floor as a result of refusin' to sit up str8 in your chair in group.  initially someone behind you would jam their knuckles into your spine in an attempt to str8en you up.  If you were to resist then inevitably you would be carried over the heads of the phasers in group and thrown on the floor and restrained until you either agreed to comply or were taken to an intake room. Refusal to comply with rules such as: "sit up str8 in your chair", "pay attention to the person talking", and "No talking out out group" all led to restraint and people who rebelled against these rules were called "misbehavers".  So my question is were there "misbehavers" in this sense, and if so were they restrained on the floor as a result of their misbehavior ??

i am fascinated by your response. Sorry to be so dogged in my questioning, but i am really lookin' to understand.  i am appreciative for the many insightful responses i have recieved so far, but i feel that my question has still not been clearly answered. T'anks

-starry-eyed pirate
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2005, 10:51:00 PM »
no, he  would be thrown to the floor and piled on by oldcomers and door guards.

The straight took this practice and tried to instituionalize and "improve" it, ala sitting on you instead of just wrestling you down and overpowering you, and then as with all such new and improved synanon techniques, started using it as a punishment. The seed never sat on you as a punishment, but if you ran you got body slammed to the ground, brought back to group, stood up and well...you know the rest.


Pirate, I would suggest you look thru this forum a bit. The answer to most of your questions exists here. Why don't you go ahead and read the forum and come back with any additional questions?
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Offline FueLaw

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« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2005, 10:52:00 PM »
Pirate,

If a kid tried to bolt he would get restrained. But not for long periods of time. If you were a little guy like me, the would put a big guy further along in the program and sit you next to them. If you were not paying attention you would get proded and stuff like that from people sitting around you.

Based on what I have read on the Straight board Straight was way more brutal than the Seed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »