The Seed compared to Str8

[Anonymous]

After re-reading my post above.  I meant to say the Seed never told me to not have anything to do w/ my mom.  That was always my decision what I wanted to do.....

[cleveland]

I believe I do practice love. To understand is to forgive; but getting to understanding may take a long, long time. I am still working on Hitler...

(Sort of a joke)

Art Barker and The Seed gave me many powerful experiences and memories, but I have to say, on balance for me, it was a net loss of freedom, personal power and ability to choose to live my life as I wanted to. But I will be generous and say that it also gave me a lot, most of which (friends, answers, and purpose) I lost when I left and had to re-find and define. I would avoid putting my own child in a similar coercive environment. My own family was massively disfunctional at that point and it was ineveitable that I would have to thrash around somewhere. It happened to be the Seed.

I do feel love for all of the pro-, con- and ambiguous former Seedlings. But I would oppose further Seeds all the same.

Walter

[Antigen]

On 2005-09-01 13:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

Antigen - you must speak for yourself. I know you did not go to the Seed and maybe Straight messed you up but not all of us feel the way you do. I am not blind and know how I feel in my heart. It always tells me the truth.

Nope, it didn't start w/ Straight. You know damned well how immersed my mother was in The Seed and how much that must have effected me. The only kid in my neighborhood or school who was allowed to (or wanted to) hang around w/ me after my mom started her second round of recruiting was the other Seedling. That included my best friend and everyone else. I lived like an animal on display from about the time I was 8 or so.

Remember yesterday when you were (maybe seriously) wondering why I get under your skin so much? Well, I wasn't the least bit surprised by the way you treat me. That's exactly the way Program people were trained to treat rebellious newcomers or olddruggiefriends. I even used to say those same spiteful things to misbehavers and recaptured splits in group in Sarasota.

See, I had had 10 years to study the whole thing before I landed up on front row. I was a damned vet at playing the game. So it didn't effect me so much as it did some people. I didn't internalize it. I was able to be a little objective and dispassionate; even to the point of occasionally taking the chance of cluing in a newcomer who was cracking under the pressur; "Just say what they want to hear, it'll all be over soon, don't take any of this too seriously, it's all theatre".

If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6302294274/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Cleese

[JaLong]

What do you mean anyone could just leave?? Not when I was in the seed in '73. If someone tried to leave they were wrestled to the ground. I did that to one of my newcomers. Thank God she had long hair. I threw off my shoes, took off running after her, grabbed her long hair, and body slammed her to the ground. Then she was started over. My old boyfriend came in to get me out. He threw a chair across the room, and spilt that night. If you were in there on your own it was a shorter time. Court ordered(phoney) as I was was, 30 days away from home. 10 1/2 months later I was an old timer. 2 meetings later I just quit going.

[JaLong]

Amen John! I was court ordered(not one offense against me) but my intake person(can't remember her name right now Mrs?) said if i didn't sign the papers I would go to jail. Yeah right!! She told me St.PBCH, T.I, Seminole, and Pass-a-grill cops knew all about my drug dealings. Another yeah right!! :lol:
Anyhoo, I agree with your quote. Some of you here who have to rant and rag on John need to let go and forgive, if that's the problem with you. John just did what he thought was right, under the direction of Art. Leave him alone!!
Julie

[Antigen]

Ok, but please take a moment to consider what you read w/ your own eyes over how someone else characterizes things. Who's really beating hell out of John here? I've seen some questionsand some challenges to some of his assertions, but nowhere near the bashing one might expect. Shit, not half, by far, what I take just about always, and I host the damned site.  :rofl:

Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status
--Laurence J. Peter

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-01 18:27:00, Antigen wrote:...Shit, not half, by far, what I take just about always, and I host the damned site.  :rofl:

Yeah, but you BEG for it - John doesn't :roll:

[starry-eyed pirate]

...uhh...so i'm still pretty confused.  Maybe i should jus' ask 1 question at a time. How long was the avg. program at the Seed ??

[GregFL]

To acess fairly what happened, yes John did get beat on a bit after he posted. I wish it didn't happen. Also, people quesioned and challenged his post in what I feel is in an appropriate manner.

As far as being 18 and being able to leave...I will just tell you my personal story.

My stepbrother was 18. Mrs. Peterman told him he could sign himself in for three days and then if he didn't like it, he could leave.  I came onto the front row on his third day and they sat me three people down from him.  I leaned all the way forward and said to him, "this sucks man". He said, "it sures does, Im outta here". Now, keep in mind he was a shy polite kid. He politely raised his hand, a junior staff member came over to him on the front row, and he said "Im ready to leave, my three days are up". The junior staff member started laughing. About 10 minutes later, they stood him up and chewed him out.

He got out...but it was 6 months later.

The notion that you could leave is an utter fantasy.

I myself participated in several "take downs", one of which resulted in a kid being thrown to the concrete and bloody.  Another got piled onto in my front lawn by several old comers. There are more instances but in actuality, anyone making the claim that the seed was voluntary for anyone in the early 70s is just masturbating their own memory.

[Ft. Lauderdale]

I came in voluntarily. I was a senior in high school.  I never jumped anyone.  

Antigen, cool your jets you are confusing Anonymous postings.  
1) I'm not the only sometimes wise ass poster here.  There are a few.  

2) You keep answering back to me when I'm not the poster.

3) As far as crude and rude, please reexamine some of your own posts.  

I have a question or two for you Antigen.  Do your kids sufer from your involvement with this site and all the others you post on?  Do your older ones think your crazy for what you do?
Do the older ones smoke pot? Do you? Do you condone minors using drugs?

[Ft. Lauderdale]

I never knew your mother.  Although others have told me she was a real nice lady.  (that was not my post either)

[Antigen]

Lauderdale, those are really insulting, loaded questions. I guess you don't even know you're doing it, huh? Then again, you're not stupid, I know that. But then yet again, you spent your entire adult life in a culture where this sort of behavior is perfectly acceptable toward certain people.

Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense...
-- John Adams, (1788)

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Do you really think those are loaded questions? I don't.  They are actually really simple questions.

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Did your condensending attitude come from Seed or Straight or are you just that way by nature? :silly:

[Ft. Lauderdale]

or was that too much of a loaded question for you?