Author Topic: The Seed compared to Str8  (Read 9439 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2005, 04:33:00 PM »
See, I told you Antigen knows all. The almighty powferful wizard of fornits.  All knowing  ::bigmouth::  ::bigmouth::  ::bigmouth::  ::bigmouth::
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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2005, 04:36:00 PM »
OHHHHH ANNNTTTIGEEEENNNN... ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bigsmilebounce::
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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2005, 04:37:00 PM »
Almost a 21 butt salute. :grin:
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Offline Anonymous

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2005, 04:46:00 PM »
I'm a little foggy according to her :silly: only she sees things correctly and CLEARLY...
The almighty one.  Do your kids have to say "Yes, Mother dear? :grin:
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2005, 04:49:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-31 13:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Did you ever like str8 at all?  Were there any good things about it? Like kindness or goodness at all?"


Well this is a tricky question to anwer.  i got myself into a ton of trouble over on the str8 survivors forum for even suggestin' that i learned something from my experience in str8.  If you want to know what i think about whether or not there was anything good about str8 read the "Does Anyone Remember Str8 With Any Fondness"** thread over on the survivors forum(maybe that was even you that started that volitile discussion). i would post the link here but i don't quite know how to do all that technical kind of stuff yet.

There were some moments of goodness and kindness but i don't think much of it was genuine.  Pretty much str8 was a devastating ordeal to live through.

Read that thread i referenced, i think you will find it quite interesting.  Right now (9/01/05) it's on the 3rd page of the survivors forum.

**correction
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If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2005, 04:51:00 PM »
At least I'm having fun with this.
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2005, 04:57:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-31 13:30:00, Antigen wrote:

"Pirate, our anon here is a little foggy on the details. The Seed wasn't voluntary at all when it started out.



I don't remember the doors and windows being locked at our house. But then we only had newcomers a few times and briefely at that. Others from the same time (`72 - `74 and `78 or so) do remember locked foster homes. And I remember hearing about oldcomers and oldtimers going out and tracking down splits, just like the goon squads of Straight. They still do that, btw, at GT, KHK and SAFE. They're just ever so careful to pretend it was all the kids and parents' idea, nothing to do at all w/ staff.



I've also heard from a few ppl now who were court ordered by program friendly judges or lied to so they thought (some for years) that they had been court ordered. There was even an arrangement w/ the police to allow Seed staff to confiscate and hold illegal drugs and pipes and such found on newcomers or in their homes by their parents. These items were sometimes used to blackmail the kids. And there's a story on Wes' site from a guy who claims they used someone else's stash to blackmail him.



However, I have to agree that Straight was more strident and more punitive than The Seed in Ft. Lauderdale. But I don't believe it was due to rebellious parents any more than I believe the one about the 16yo rich girl w/ a $1k/dy h habit.



Anyway, from all I hear about The Seed after they lost NIDA funding and Bobby DoPont and his cronnies turned their hands to the Straight cause, involvement was as voluntary as any other cult. Sure, you could leave at any time. But ask anyone who left after a couple of years what that was like. Or just read what some of those people have already posted about that.



If we had been born in Constantinople, then most of us would have said: "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshipers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana.
--


"


Thanks for the perspective Ant.  What year did the Seed start and what year did it become strictly voluntary ??  What brought this change about ??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Antigen

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The Seed compared to Str8
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2005, 06:29:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-31 13:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm a little foggy according to her :silly: only she sees things correctly and CLEARLY...

The almighty one.  Do your kids have to say "Yes, Mother dear? :grin:  "


Well, it helps if you take the time to read up on the history. It's not like it's all classified, secret stuff. Just the public record stuff that's available on the net will do.

Remember not so long ago you said (and I'm sure you believed) that Art never accepted federal funding? But he did. You were there then. Even as a little kid, I remember the public and private talk about it after the Ervin report came out. Did you read the Ervin report or any of the news articles of the time about it? Or were you not allowed to read things like that? You can now, you know. You won't even be confronted for it.

"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."


--Rick Root

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2005, 07:00:00 PM »
How can you possibly say the Seed was voluntary? You know damned well you tracked down splits and kidnapped them off the street. You personally, man! Not some theoretical other Seedlings. You were right there in the thick of it.

It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'>Thomas Jefferson

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline John Underwood

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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2005, 07:50:00 AM »
For those over 18 y.o., The Seed was voluntary unless court ordered. Those under 18 y.o. required parental consent, with or without court order. Many were there involuntarily, but despite what one might infer from reading the posts here, (though the involuntary were a large number), these were still a minority. (The squeaky wheel does get the most attention)
As to Seed v. Straight, there (obviously) were numerous commonalities as Straight attempted to institute their version of The Seed, but to categorize them as being the same is ludicrous. Excluding individual anomalies, i.e. bad people, (which occur everywhere and in everything), this would be exactly analogous to stating that the practice of Salafi or Wahhabi is the same as Sunni or ShiÌa because both cite and use the Koran as the basis of their beliefs and practices. Just as in this case, it is the differences in application that are the most defining, not the commonalities.
By keeping in mind that haters practice hate, and that vendetta can be intoxicating, much can be both extrapolated and intuited from what you read here.

P.S.
For those of you enamored with using other people?s quotes, here?s one that?s conspicuous by it?s absence. - ?To understand all, is to forgive all.? - Socrates.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2005, 08:25:00 AM »
Antigen said...Finally, anon, wtf do you mean I'm in denial? Denial of what? Who are you and what makes you think you know anything true about me, aside from what I've said myself? Are you kin to me? Cause I haven't talked to, far less spent time w/, any of my own family of origin in a number of years. I know they've got plenty to say about me, but they never have bothered to get to know me in real life. It's all just gossip.

I suspected it was all about your family, and the above statement explains it all to me right there.  
I'm sorry that your family won't bother to have anything to do with you. I'm sorry that this site has to fill the void for you.  Maybe you should take your energies and reach out to them, its not too late.  It never is.  Just maybe Socrates knew what he was talking about.

I refuse to argue with you any longer.  The Seed was not perfect but it did a hell of alot of good.
I do wish you the best, and hope you find the love and knowledge to move on.[ This Message was edited by: Ft. Lauderdale on 2005-09-01 05:32 ]
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2005, 12:03:00 PM »
The seed I knew as a child was never voluntary. They coerced you after hours of badgering and lying to you to "sign yourself in just to see if you like it and then leave if you want to after three days " then threatened you with a "court order" and increased time if you tried to leave. If you ran for the door, they threw you to the concrete and piled on you.


Very very few of the thousands of Children commited there actually signed themselves in.


Voluntary...?

What a crock of shit!!!
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Offline starry-eyed pirate

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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2005, 12:27:00 PM »
So the Seed it seems was an involuntary program that apparently became strictly voluntary at some point ?? How and when did this change occur ??  If the Seed was involuntary then wern't there misbehavers protesting their captivity ??  What, specifically, made the Seed less harsh than str8 ??  How is it that so many Seedlings(not all, i know) seem to have some kind of gratitude for their program, when so many Str8lings are so bitter and scarred ??  i know i am askin' alot of questions, and some may be unanswerable, but the more understandin' i have the more peace i find. Thanx.

Peace.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you would have justice in this world, then begin to see that a human being is not a means to some end.  People are not commodities.  When human beings are just to one another government becomes obsolete and real freedom is born; SPIRITUAL ANARCHY.

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2005, 12:36:00 PM »
Lauderdale, you're right. My biggest problem w/ The Seed and all the rest of the Synanon based programs is what they do to families. It's the same old scam as any other cult; they market to people who are in distress to the point of desperation and they make slaves of them.

I wish I had some voids in my life. Maybe when this littlest one gets a little older. But, of course, by then I'll probably have added "grandma" to my collection of hats.

I do have a sustained and avid interest in the topic of coerced thought reform. The primary impetus driving that interest has to do with how the industry effects the world my kids and, eventually, grand kids will inherit from us.

John, thanks for posting again and for being as straight about it as you can. Forgiveness is devine. Forgetfulness is just a mental dysfunction.


Jails and prisons are the complement of schools; so many less as you have of the latter, so many more you must have of the former

--Horace Mann



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2005, 04:04:00 PM »
I went into the Seed involuntarily and I am grateful I did.  I knew I needed help desperately but would never have gotten it if not for the Seed.  All of my family had been in institutions and had problems.  I was definately on my way there.

I never had anyone treat me badly.  I was only treated w/ love and compassion.  Maybe I feel different about it because I needed the help where some like Greg felt he did not need the help.  I can only speak for the Seed in Ft. Lauderdale.  I don't know how the other Seeds were.  

And as far as family's - my mother was very vengeful and hated the Seed with a passion.  They never told me to have nothing to do with her.  Even when she was on her dying bed they wanted me to do the whatever I could  for her.  And you know what - She told me she was glad that I went into the Seed and that it changed my life for the best.  She made everything right between us before she left.

As I said before I dearly loved the Seed with all my heart and wanted to be there through all of the years.  

Antigen - you must speak for yourself.  I know you did not go to the Seed and maybe Straight messed you up but not all of us feel the way you do.  I am not blind and know how I feel in my heart.  It always tells me the truth.
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