Wisdom Ranch School

[Anonymous]

That's right, PHX. Keep telling yourself that you "did the right thing". Keep ignoring the horrifying truth. It must be pretty tough for you to cope with the guilt of having paid for your son to be imprisoned and abused.

So, now, to ease your guilt and keep that bubble you're living in occupied, you try to draw other parents into that same trap you fell into so long ago. I bet you don't tell them how much money you make out of their ignorance and vulnerability, do you? You don't tell them that WWASPS pays you $1000 for every parent you manage to recruit.

You will rot in hell for what you did to your son and for what you caused other parents to do to their own children.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-09-03 10:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Blue Hills?  I live in AZ - Blue Hills is a very small spin off by a former WWASPS person.  Don't know if she was an employee or what.  Someone said she used to be married to David Gilcrease.  Rumor maybe.



Anyway the pro of this would be that your kid is in AZ.  The con would be there are no family support systems in place - there is a Phoenix family support group that meets once a month and tons of ways to connect with each other during other times. Kids went - graduate or not - come to the meetings too.  



There are no parent/child  workshops that I'm aware of nor are there any workshops/seminars for you as a parent to get your life to a different place (if you need it, of course)  Some do, some don't.  



Schools and programs that are overseen by WWASPS are always in the news - both good and bad.  I have personal experience and know the bad is media hype - you know kinda like a famous person - the more famous they are the worse the stories.  Usually always based on fact but twisted so it hardly even resembles the truth anymore.  



There are thousands of success stories, but only a few that feel they were not given what they were promised.  Funny thing is, WWASPS, nor each individual school promises anything.  People hear only what they want to



If I wanted to believe my kid was being abused, I could have stupidly gone up to Cross Creek and pulled him out - didn't though, just made sure it wasn't true in other ways.  He said anything he could in the beginning to get me to come and rescue him from having to follow rules or to get away from not being able to do what he pleased.



If you really read some of the stories about abuse, you'll certainly see what would motivate it.  My son was there for 19 months and in all that time the only abuse he saw was the kids abusing the staff or their parents when they came to visit - his words.   He's been home 5 years so it's not a "fresh" experience and his story hasn't changed.  



Good luck to you in your research.  It's always best to look at both sides.



Here's a couple of links that help on the "pro" side - not welcome on this site and will get a lot of blasting - I can take it.



http://www.wwasprebuttal.com/parent_references.html



If you're in AZ - you can get some information on the schools at http://www.arizonateenhelp.com - you won't be talking with someone somewhere in cyberspace - you will be getting info from parents that have been where you are right now and in the same area.  As far as I know they aren't there to tell you what to do - only give you their personal experience and answer your questions.  I'm not sure what happens after that other than talking to an admissions person if you decide that's what you want to do next.  



But, please let us know if there's any pressure or anything that would be considered not right.  



PHX"

Not this dick again.  This person is a programmie thru and thru and has financial connections to WWASP.  Does a LOT of advertising for them.

[jellybean]

How the heck are you supposed to know what is what here? I do know that kickback systems work well in United States to help businesses get referrals, it happens all the time in my business and I'm certain it happens in others. I am notorious in my business for refusing them, they are unethical so shame on anyone who accepts them for this purpose!

I am going to ask this question please don't blast me, objective input only, thanks

Does anyone know anything about Wilderness Quest?  

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'>Mark Twain

[Troll Control]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =30#109027

WWASP and PHX information.
************************************************

Jelly, why are you so fixated on residential placement of your kid?  CLEARLY his behavior doesn't rise to that level.  Do you realize that he won't get any psychological care from these places?

It sounds like he's a normal kid dealing with some big, but normal, issues (like his dad's passing).  

Believe us when we tell you these places WON'T HELP him to deal with grief and loss and will CREATE other issues that he'll be less likely to discuss with you or anyone else after the program shuts him down emotionally.

These programs provide TEMPORARY behavior modification, but do irrepairable psychological damage.  He's not going to trust you after he feels abandoned and gets abused and told things like "your mom is sick of you that's why she left you here."  Then, alone, he will begin to struggle with all of the prior problems, plus the abuse heaped on him in captivity.

These places are SCAMS designed solely for the purpose of separating a desperate fool from her money.  I know because I worked at one of the industry's most expensive "flagships."  

For $5000.00 per month your kid gets treated worse than your dog, and all the while they sequester him and abuse him and tell you he needs to stay longer and you can't talk to him because he's being "defiant" or he's not "working the program."  "Trust the process" they'll tell you.  That is until you run out of money, then your kid will be out on his ass so fast it'll make your head spin.

Jelly, seriously consider what you're doing here.   Don't let this become "program shopping."  Take your time and talk to your kid's therapist.  

If residential care is warranted (and I'm sure s/he'll say it isn't), use in-patient programs near your home.  If he really needs an in-patient level of psychiatric care, at least respect him enough not to hand him over to pseudo-psychological hacks with no degree or training or certification or license.

Jelly, help save your kid from hell, don't weave the basket...

[Troll Control]

On 2005-09-03 11:12:00, jellybean wrote:

"How the heck are you supposed to know what is what here? I do know that kickback systems work well in United States to help businesses get referrals, it happens all the time in my business and I'm certain it happens in others. I am notorious in my business for refusing them, they are unethical so shame on anyone who accepts them for this purpose!



I am going to ask this question please don't blast me, objective input only, thanks



Does anyone know anything about Wilderness Quest?  

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/external-search?tag=circlofmiamithem&keyword=mark+twain&mode=books' target='_new'>Mark Twain

"

It's a 12-step (AA model) "wilderness" program for drug addicted/alcoholic teenagers.

12-step programs have been proven to be one of the least effective modalities for getting kids off drugs.  More often than not, the kids exchange "war stories" and learn about other types of drugs and how to use them without getting caught (again).

[jellybean]

I am not fixed on a placement for my kid, but what I am fixed on is doing the absolute best job I can do in searching for the right resources and options.  Here's the thing, when you are a parent in these shoes and things are getting progressivley worse and each incident doesn't ellicit a response from my son that even closely relates to admitting what he is doing is dangerous, but rather keeps saying how everyone else who has gotten caught up in serious drug addictions is stupid except him and minimizes what he's done or blames others for exposing him to what he's done it's scary.  You think: I only have him for a little while longer, what if he doesn't get it before he can do whatever he wants (turns 18), what if I don't do anything more than what I'm doing now, what if it doesn't work, what if I send him somewhere and it makes it worse, what if he ends up dead and I did nothing or he ends up dead because I did something and it was the wrong thing to do.  You see regardless of what I do, I need to know that I was aware of my options and made the best decision I could. Either way I could be making the wrong one. I have to live with that the rest of my life......it's tough....put your self in my shoes. I could get a million different suggestions and still make the wrong choice and then who do I blame?  The person who gave it to me?  At the end of the day I am responsible for this situation until he is age.

The wretchedness of religion is at once an expression and a protest against real wretchedness. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions. It is the opium of the people.
--Karl Marx, German economist and political philosopher

[Anonymous]

Jelly Bean - I'm curious as to why you would be posting on a program "hate" site?  If you are truly looking for the best option for your family, wouldn't it be better to identify first what you are looking for - what issues are you currently looking for help with and then ask for references from each of the schools you are researching.  Ask those parents (and you can ask to talk to their teen if they're now home)  to give you both the good and not so good in their experience.  I know that most parents and the teens will tell you what they did or didn't like about their school of choice.

Asking here is going to give you too much fear in seeking help - like everyone on here says, they think keeping our kids at home is really an option. If we get to this point, it usually isn't and could do more harm than good.  We all wanted to keep our kids at home,but to truly love them, we had to look to places that specialize in this.  

Coming on this board you'd get the idea that HELP is a bad and shameful word.  Good for you for asking, but you'd be better served over at http://www.strugglingteens.com.   They are not associated with the WWASPS schools, as they are a group of educational consultants and WWASPS doesn't pay educational consultants so they discourage you looking there.  But...their forum is good.    


PHX  :wink:

[Anonymous]

but to truly love them, we had to look to places that specialize in this.

 ::puke::

[Anonymous]

Only kids who are a danger to themselves or others need to be placed in a "locked" (meaning 24 hour supervision) facility and even then, 90 days is about the average length of time needed to stablize them.

Parents who turn to private lock down facilities as the answer to conflict in the home, school or community often believe they are "saving" their child from certain harm when in reality, they could be placing their son/daughter in an environment ruled by fear and intimidation.

BUYER BEWARE.

 :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-03 17:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Jelly Bean - I'm curious as to why you would be posting on a program "hate" site?  If you are truly looking for the best option for your family, wouldn't it be better to identify first what you are looking for - what issues are you currently looking for help with and then ask for references from each of the schools you are researching.  Ask those parents (and you can ask to talk to their teen if they're now home)  to give you both the good and not so good in their experience.  I know that most parents and the teens will tell you what they did or didn't like about their school of choice.



Asking here is going to give you too much fear in seeking help - like everyone on here says, they think keeping our kids at home is really an option. If we get to this point, it usually isn't and could do more harm than good.  We all wanted to keep our kids at home,but to truly love them, we had to look to places that specialize in this.  



Coming on this board you'd get the idea that HELP is a bad and shameful word.  Good for you for asking, but you'd be better served over at http://www.strugglingteens.com.   They are not associated with the WWASPS schools, as they are a group of educational consultants and WWASPS doesn't pay educational consultants so they discourage you looking there.  But...their forum is good.    





PHX  :wink: "

Obviously you are a program parent ... someone who advocates "programming" vs. "parenting".

Struggling Teens is a forum infested with toxic parents.

[OverLordd]

Many of them do not have the fortatude to be disagreed with. Most infact do not seem its right to question their actions, or the current health of their child. While there are some ok people there, most struck me as rude, and disrespectful, and very condicending. The do truely care about their children, but they have been blinded. I believe they are victims of con men that just need help.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-03 21:57:00, OverLordd wrote:

"Many of them do not have the fortatude to be disagreed with. Most infact do not seem its right to question their actions, or the current health of their child. While there are some ok people there, most struck me as rude, and disrespectful, and very condicending. The do truely care about their children, but they have been blinded. I believe they are victims of con men that just need help."

Ive read your posts over there. You got it backwards, you're the one that is rude, disrespectful and condescending. And you're the same way on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anon Quote:  Obviously you are a program parent ... someone who advocates "programming" vs. "parenting"....

               ************

Actually parenting and family values are a huge part of the program - interesting that you would say that.  Do you have experience of a WWASPS school or are you just another person on here that hates programs in general?  

PHX  :wink:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-09-03 22:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Anon Quote:  Obviously you are a program parent ... someone who advocates "programming" vs. "parenting"....



               ************



Actually parenting and family values are a huge part of the program - interesting that you would say that.  Do you have experience of a WWASPS school or are you just another person on here that hates programs in general?  



PHX  :wink:



"

Parenting is a huge part of the program?

If that's so, why wouldn't the program allow you to visit or even talk to your own child, until they decided it was okay?

Why weren't you allowed to have any knid of interaction with him until you fulfilled the program's requirements, went through their seminars, and became intodctrinated with their ideology?

Lady, wake up. A program that keeps you from communicating freely with your own child and which keeps him out of the real world for years is not about "parenting". WWASPS took your parental authority from you, and manipulated you into thinking they are empowering you. And you fell for it. And now you are trying to pull another desperate parent into the same trap.

Shame on you.

[Anonymous]

Oh, and one more thing: if the program is about "parenting", why are parents encouraged to abandon their child and cut off all communications with him/her if the child refuses to what the cult... oops, the "Program" wants them to do?

Parents, if you care about your kids, stay away from WWASPS and similar programs. They damage your child and you in so many ways. And, no, keeping your kid in a program for years is not "parenting"... it's "abandonment".