The ecstasy epidemic

[Anonymous]

On 2002-12-15 00:19:00, Tampa survivor wrote: "Come hang out at Tampa General or St Joes hospital here on a weekend when the Ybor city partiers start to crash. Some real wastes happen."

Bill,

You seem to have some knowledge, or should I say insight in this area, possibly because you are a health care worker.



With that said, I would like you ask you, how many youths are there on average over the weekend that show up at the ER? How do they get there, are they brought by ambulance?



Also, with the kids showing up in the ER, how many more females are there as opposed to males?  I curious to know so as to speculate whether there may be a possibility that there are more overdoses in females because of the "date rape" techniques, where they are being drugged without their knowledge? I could see where it would be easy for that to happen, as a young lady would take a pill only to wind up drinking water tainted by an unscrupulous individuals.



I look forward to hearing you response on these, as I would much rather trust your unofficial judgment then skewed guberment statics.



I agree that there are too many "wana be" chemists out there that are making dangerous drugs, but properly manufactured ecstasy is actual safe, and can even be therapeutic from a psychiatric standpoint.



Even with the facts that they (drug warriors) state, why do they oppose those groups that setup shop at raves and do minor testing on the scrapings of these pill in order to help kids from being poisoned. Granted it is not perfect and can not check the potency of these pills, but since there is no real regulation, why not do the best we can to help keep our kids (who will take X if they choose, like it or not) as safe as we can?



Some drugs are good, and some are bad,

but weed is the best drug I've ever had.

Smoke a big fatty and it clears my head,

or helps me sleep when I go to bed.

The best buds help me write the most awesome code,

I'll still be smoking weed when I'm 100 years old :smokin:



 

_________________

This is your Brain , and this is your Brain on coerced treatment

Some Days It's Just Not Worth
Chewing Through The Leather Straps

[ This Message was edited by: SysAdmin on 2002-12-15 09:44 ]

[Hamiltonf]

I am an oldie that keeps visiting this site as a matter of interest.  (I'm 62)
I personally might take E some day, in very controlled circumstances.  Both of my kids (now in their 20s) have experimented with E, but ONLY after educating themselves very thoroughly about it, and all the others -- and having it tested.  It is always best to use it VERY sparingly, and they report positive results if so used.  
Erowid.org is a good source of information, as is a book Ecstacy-- a user's guide.  Also psychologist Alexander Shulgin are allsources of accurate information.  
The biggest danger of taking this recreational drug is if you don't look after yourself and either get dehydrated and suffer heatstroke and die, or, at the other end of the spectrum, to counter heatstroke,you drink too much water and lose electrolytes which will cause the brain to swell and you will die.  
It is also wise to have the drug tested.  see dancesafe.org.
The biggest threat to your life comes from the US Senate, and their "Ecsacy Anti proliferation Act"  This, in itself is probably doing an incredibly greater amount of damage to people who get caught than the extremely rare deaths.  Viagra which is made specifically for "approved" recreational purposes by pharmaceutical companies with great lobbying power, has in its short life caused more deaths than Ecstacy, which has been around since the 1920's.  Mind you, it's really not wise to mix viagra with E.  That can kill you too, but some people do it.  I guess if at a young age you cannot get a hard-on, you really should talk to a doctor.

Take care.

[Tampa survivor]

I am not the ER these days, but I see the leftovers that get admitted.  I have a couple of friends down in the ER...and will try to get a count.
The conked heads in halo traction 20 year olds who got in a fight, the cracked up cars and loveley brain bounces, every night.
Straight ODs go to psych, after a nice stay in ICU if bad.
We did have a run of PMA laced X which was dropping 3-10 kids a night into the ER with 106 temps and all the joy.  Lost a few too.  The stuff hit orlando too.  Girls and guys Equal on X from what I see.  Priveliged,pretty white kids.  I guess hip hop and x don't mix.  
Smoke weed kids.  If you must do something that is.  Alcohol creates the most sublime stupidity in humans.  Have you ever seen an orthopedic surgeons bill?  OUCH.  
I will see what the OD djour is these days from my buds and get back.
Bill

[Hamiltonf]

Which doesn't address the problem.  It's not the MDMA, it's the bad stuff which comes from bad quality control, ERGO legalize all drugs, control them for quality, take it out of the hands of organized crime.  Follow the example of Holland, you idiots.  
Your work on ER is not educating you about the drugs because you have no context to put it in.  And perhaps, if the DEA and NIDA stopped treating marijuana the same as heroin, maybe young people would listen to them.  But scare tactics and DARE (remember the Sembler's role in DARE) don't work.
Read the "Less is more" post again.  Also, locate and read the book "Synthetic Panics" by Professor Jenkins from Penn State University.  
Remember, the Straights were a product of a moral panic.  It's in the US that moral panics have reached a new high.  Probably the role of a largely uncritical media and  Christian fundamentalist churches  with a strong basis in the south.  Those southern baptist ministers have a lot to answer for (Ever hear the song about the Reverend Dr. Lee by Roberta Flack)  Just laden with good old Christian Guilt  -- and oh, my god, those negras and their sex, you know.  Reefer madness.  Black guys having sex with all those white girls.  Isn't that what E is all about?  SEX.  Isn't that inherent racism that drove so many white folks to put their kids into the hands of the Semblers, because they feared the depravity to which drugs would take them?

[Antigen]

On 2002-12-15 15:51:00, Hamiltonf wrote: "I am an oldie that keeps visiting this site as a matter of interest.  (I'm 62)

Ok, I'm going to break with my usual habit of stiffling my curiosity over personal info. I thought I'd had enough of other people's business to last me a lifetime. But now I'm piqued.

If you don't mind saying, what is your interest in these forums?

On 2002-12-15 15:51:00, Hamiltonf I personally might take E some day, in very controlled circumstances.  Both of my kids (now in their 20s) have experimented with E, but ONLY after educating themselves very thoroughly about it, and all the others -- and having it tested.  It is always best to use it VERY sparingly, and they report positive results if so used.

I'm thinking along the same lines. I think I could benefit from the experience. If ever I could be dispensible for a time and also sure that the drug was pure and of known dose, I'd love to try it. Pulling all that together while raising young kids, though... well, it just hasn't happened and probably won't till my youngest is a bit older.

It really puzzles me to see Marijuana connected with Narcotics - Dope and all that crap?it's a thousand times better than whiskey - it's an Assistant - a friend.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000002ORZ/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Louis Armstrong

[Anonymous]

On 2002-12-15 20:58:00, Hamiltonf wrote: "Your work on ER is not educating you about the drugs because you have no context to put it in."

Actually I think that it does, with respect to that is not about the drug it self but the consequences that follow from it's consumption,  giving him a unique look at how many problems that are occurring from the major problem with ecstasy; Quality Control. Properly dosed it is not harmful, so if there are people showing up in the ER it is either from taking too much or taking shit that is cut with some bad stuff, or worse yet taking something that is not what they though it was at all. And while these problems may be caused by the fact that it is illegal, makes the statics even more important in the fight for legalization/regulation.

I believe whole heartedly that ALL drugs should be legalized and some/most should be regulated, but that does not mean that one should deny the facts that a lot of these drugs can be harmful or addictive.

[Hamiltonf]

Agreed.  I just wasn't sure that was his position.

[Anonymous]

Of course, remembering how the US has such a highly moralistic leadership leads me to wonder about the position taken by Jessica Stern (formerly of the National Security Council 1994-1995) in a recent BBC "Panorama" program.  She said:
"We (the US) are despised around the world" and
"We will be doing Al Quaida's work for them if we attack Iraq"
How does this relate to the War on drugs?  
Well,  With Canada's hints at ending Marijuana prohibition, John Walters is running around threatening Canada with border sanctions.  Simultaneously,  the US Ambassador to Canada is telling Canada that it is not sensitive enough to US needs and should strengthen it's military.
Even on this forum, I have heard it expressed that the US has "protected Canada".  I would like to ask, "from what?"  If Canada needs protection, it seems to me it is from the US and it's insane drug war.  The drug war is just one of many factors that has led the US to be despised around the world --- including Canada  --- and Canada should stay out of fighting US wars for it.
Yours truly
A Canadian Raver.

[Anonymous]

While I am unsure of Bill's position I do believe that even for a legalizes such as our selves, that being in daily contact with the out come of poorly manufacture ecstasy or even ODs there of,  can be disconcerting and therefor may make ones opinion more bias.

I do have a question for you though, When you said: "at the other end of the spectrum, to counter heatstroke,you drink too much water and lose electrolytes which will cause the brain to swell and you will die."

I wasn't aware that one could consume quite that much water. Since a gallon a day is the recomended amount, exactly where is the threshold? I may be making an assumption here, but you wouldn't need to be on any drugs in order to cause this problem. I would be interested in knowing more about it. You wouldn't happen to have a handy pointer to such subject matter would you? I'm just curious.

[Hamiltonf]

Send me a private message, I'll provide an e-mail address for someone who will answer your questions. (when I have her permission)

[Anonymous]

As a side not on legalization:

If you have not had the opportunity to check out Antigens earlier post in the "Open Free For All" forum about Dan Burton check it out: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... ort=D#7506

[FaceKhan]

The issue with MDMA (ecstasy) is that there are very few deaths from it. The media needs a story so they blow it up and of course the Drug War interests need to keep the public frightened of a never ending series of hobgoblins in order to get away with their abuses. The problem is the prohibition which creates the black market for the drug where you can never be sure of what you are getting. There have only been a handful of deaths from MDMA, mostly dehydration/heat stroke. There is no evidence that anyone has died from an MDMA overdose although I am sure there have been one or two. Mostly people are dying because they buy what they think is MDMA and get something totally different like PNA which is responsible for dozens of deaths when large batches of PNA get sold as MDMA.

Definitely erowid is the shiznit. I was reading up on that site and just before my friends were about to do something stupid that would have resulted in lot of vomiting, I found something on erowid related to it that prevented their stupidity. Ok well it delayed it. :smile:

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: FaceKhan on 2002-12-15 22:43 ]

[dreammagician]

Big brother is making money off the drug war, why stop it, those idiot republican fools. If we controlled the drug trade what a difference this would make in our society. True, it would shake alot of feathers especialloy down here in the south , but who cares. We're just little puppets that got expreimented with. It didn't work so now big bro moves on to bigger and better things. Mind control is such an effortless game. Canada rules and I wish we could adopt more of their ways. Bush is an idiot and can rot in hell

[Shelby]

Water intoxification is quite real. Usually infants and small children are accidental victims of well-meaning parents who think they aren't drinking enough water in hot weather, but it can happen to anyone.

"Drinking large amounts of water can strain the kidneys, causing excess loss of the mineral salts, sodium and potassium," Dr. Alpern explains. "This can lead to hypoatraemia, or water intoxification, a potentially fatal condition where the blood becomes over-diluted and the cells begin to swell."

Shelby

[Tampa survivor]

Hamilton> read my past posts.  I think you can easily see where I stand on many things.
Do you have some conection to the straights?  
Just curious too.
 Sparing you guys the finer points of hyponatremia, yall are right.  Too much water= bad.  Add street shit with whoodafuck knows whats in it= REAL BAD
Philisopical opposition to the ban on certain drugs can clash with reality when you see an intubated 15 year old with cheerleaders and football players crying outside the room wishing their friend would wake up.
Bill