Some of you have mentioned several of your old friends that have died (presumably of overdose or drug / alcohol related problems) and I have no reason to doubt you on this. However, again, in my own experience as far as I know none of my "old druggie friends" have died due to any of this. (one acquantance from high school did crash his car into a tree while drunk and died) The vast majority have either stopped using drugs completely on their own or smoke pot occassionally. Most are married, some divorced, some successful, some less so. I have no reason to believe my own life would have turned out much different from theirs. The only one that spent any time in prison was indirectly put there by me...I am ashamed to say. I turned states' evidence to avoid extensive prison time. We spoke a few years ago and he holds no hard feelings...we were both kids.
There is also the issue of continued drug or alcohol abuse. Part of the claim is that the Seed was the definitive cause of getting off drugs and alcohol. Being a drug-rehab, this claim was also itself an integral part of the content of what we were taught. It was drummed into us that 'the seed got me straight.' Again, I'd give the claim more weight if it wasn't such a strong part of the program itself. If we were instead told that any number of programs, influences or teachings from various sources could be the cause of our getting straight (ceasing drug use) and graduates simply came to the independent conclusion that it was the Seed program rather than any other factors that was responsible for discontinued drug use this would carry more weight. Unlike the suicide issue, we have some testimony from people that graduated the seed and continued drug use.
It is this that makes me even more skeptical of the claim that the Seed is fully responsible for 'getting me straight'. As Greg has repeatedly pointed out, there are lots of people that claim the seed is solely responsible for their sobriety but who freely admit that they graduated the program and returned to drug or alcohol abuse..in many cases becoming heavier users than before the Seed. Many of the same people that are insistent in their claim that the seed saved them and got them straight are the very ones who have struggled with on-going problems of substance abuse. If I have a joint in one hand and a bag of coke in the other while mouthing the claim that the seed is responsible for my sobriety, (or make this claim in the intermittent periods when I'm drug-free) this again lends support to the possibility that this claim is simply another conditioned response implanted by the seed itself. If I claim the Seed was the primary cause of saving me from substance abuse and yet I've been in AA off and on for years while experiencing intermittent problems with intoxicants...this reduces the claim to a purely subjective opinion. If we insist that the Seed program was the definitive cause of anyone who has successfully remained drug free, to be consistent we must also allow the possibility that it might be the cause of on-going or intensified drug abuse as well...or the more likely possibility (imo) that it simply was largely irrelevant to which of us did or didn't continue some form of abuse. The claim that most or all drug abusers end up insanedeadorinjail. is simply a lie. The vast majority don't even end up as drug abusers!
One poster also mentioned that she was 'more aware' than anyone else she knows. Again, I question claims of this sort simply because, once again, this too was a part of program dogma. We were all taught that we were more aware than 'all those others'..whether other straight people, graduates of other rehabs or certainly 'druggie assholes'.
An Anon. poster wrote this: "Well, I'm glad someone agrees with me those people should be held accountable for forcing me to celebrate my 50th birthday, as a functional, intelligent, happy, gifted, loved human being! (also) Brainwashed in SO CAL"
I don't take issue with this person's (admittedly glowing) self-evaluation. I do question whether any of this can be attributed to the Seed. I realize they do, but we were taught to do that on our program. What of all the former drug users (& I know of many) that never attended the seed or any rehab and are also happy, functional, etc.? How would you react if they attributed their own well-being to their former drug use? To finding Jesus? To converting to Islam? To Scientology (there are legions of these, btw)? To joining the libertarian party? Or to one of the other Seed knock-off programs?
This last poses unique questions. There are former straightlings (though not as many as seedlings) that defend that program and attribute their sobriety to being on that program. Yet, the majority of seedlings seem to take a very dim view of Straight and their methods. John regards it as 'based in conceit and dangerous'. It's my understanding that straight was closed because of numerous charges (& convictions) of abuse and mistreatment by staff. Does the fact that some people believe that Straight saved their lives and is the source of their happiness justify the existence of that program or it's many clones still in existence? The prevalent attitude amongst pro-seed defenders seems to be that only the Seed was good and pure with all other programs evil or defective. This is typical of religious and especially cultic devotees. It's an extreme and obvious case of 'the pot calling the kettle black.' So, all of those other programs are cults? Just not MY group! Right? They seem to think the same thing.
Sheesh...another freakin book! BTW, my daughter just gave birth to my latest grandson at 1:51 this a.m. Cigars for everyone! (Stripe & Ft. Lauderdale...glad to see u decided to stick around.) Goodnight all. :wave: