Concern for a "student"

[Anonymous]

They don't have tents- at least not in most programs.  They earn tarps.  You need a lot of gear when it is 0 degrees! They have clothes, sleeping bags, eating utensils, fire starting kit (that they make themselves).

Dysfunction- you are so amazingly ignorant and off-base.  Do you really think you know all the parents who are posting here?  Please go back into treatment and stop being an asshole.

[Anonymous]

Dysfunctional- You have absolutely no idea what kind of parents anyone who posts on these boards might be. Your anger and hatred colors your judgement so completely that you are making a total fool out of yourself. It is a shame that you continue to ruin whatever constructive dialogue might occur on this forum.
Look, we are all sorry that you are a failure and that your criminal record haunts you. We're sorry you are lonely and sad.  But why the angry attacks on parents?  Do you honestly think these people, who are most likely nowhere near this board anymore, care what your opinion of them might be?  
I wish Ginger would talk to you privately, because you are really ruining the intent of this website.

[Shortbus]

I wasn't asking what students are issued. I am asking what do you think they need? Lets say in desert conditions between 20F and 90F.

This post isnt directed at anyone in particular. Im just curious since theres been discussions about students gear not being adequate, Im wondering what might be considered adequate.

_________________
Its never too late to procrastinate[ This Message was edited by: Shortbus on 2005-08-15 09:51 ]

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-08-15 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They don't have tents- at least not in most programs.  They earn tarps.  You need a lot of gear when it is 0 degrees! They have clothes, sleeping bags, eating utensils, fire starting kit (that they make themselves).



Dysfunction- you are so amazingly ignorant and off-base.  Do you really think you know all the parents who are posting here?  Please go back into treatment and stop being an asshole."

Do the programs teach people to call others failures or assholes? I would not want to send a child into a program to learn to speak to others that way.

Or perhaps this is your professional diagnosis: asshole.

Treatment plan: Residential Placement

[TheWho]

Dysfunction thats what our systems is based on.  Look at the price of gas and Exxon mobile is having record profits.  If we still continue to fill up our cars at the same rate the price will continue to rise, if we cut back the price will drop.
If TBS's want to charge $10,000 per day, let them.  Its not alot of money for some people and people who cant afford it would move on to other alternatives.  Bottom line is the price is set by what people are willing to pay, not by the companies doing the selling.

[Deborah]

First you need to broaden the temp range to maybe -20 and 110. What would you take if you were going to live in those conditions for 3 - 6 months?

The least they should be required to do is own their own land, so they can provide a base camp with cabins. They could hike them all day but sleep them at base where they'd have adequate protection from extreme weather conditions as well as the opportunity for proper hygiene.

It's cheaper to hike them on government land, in the back 40 which makes rescues difficult and time consuming, and doesn't allow for permanent structures to be erected.

[Antigen]

There's another aspect to this, though. The profits in this industry are artificially high because they enjoy an unfair and inequitable advantage. They are not held to the same standards of accountability as the rest of society.

Even when they kill a kid, it's very rare for anyone to even be criminally charged, far less convicted, never mind properly served w/ a punishment that fits the crime. When Charles Long the II gets out of prison in a couple of short years (assuming the other inmates don't find out that he's a child abuser and put him out of our missery) Anthony Haynes will still be quite dead.

The troubled parent industry has invested substantially in public policy and advertising for several decades now. So they're not exposed to a truely free market. I think that if we were truely playing on a level playing field, this industry would not survive, or at least it wouldn't look anything like it does today. So how do we reverse this?

To regard Christ as God, and to pray to him, are to my mind the greatest possible sacrilege.
--Leo Tolstoy, Russian revolutionary

[Anonymous]

On 2005-08-15 11:05:00, Deborah wrote:

"

First you need to broaden the temp range to maybe -20 and 110. What would you take if you were going to live in those conditions for 3 - 6 months?



The least they should be required to do is own their own land, so they can provide a base camp with cabins. They could hike them all day but sleep them at base where they'd have adequate protection from extreme weather conditions as well as the opportunity for proper hygiene.



It's cheaper to hike them on government land, in the back 40 which makes rescues difficult and time consuming, and doesn't allow for permanent structures to be erected.



 "

OK, so broaden temp range. Im guessing it pretty rare that youre out in -20F. I live in Minnesota and the last few years there havent been many days that cold. I believe there are programs out there that set up base camps. Canvas yurts with wood stoves so the students arent setting up tents/tarps every night.

I agree with your point about land ownership. Repeat users in desert areas definately leave their mark. But so do the thousands of head of cattle that are grazed on public lands.

A group can set up a temporary shelter on BLM land and I think maybe they can on forest service land too but Im not positive.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-15 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They don't have tents- at least not in most programs.  They earn tarps.  You need a lot of gear when it is 0 degrees! They have clothes, sleeping bags, eating utensils, fire starting kit (that they make themselves).



Dysfunction- you are so amazingly ignorant and off-base.  Do you really think you know all the parents who are posting here?  Please go back into treatment and stop being an asshole."

sounds like you're doing a little projection here, parent.  mostly it's you who's acted like an asshole and seem to need some treatment.

maybe your program can help you stop projecting and own your behavior.  you need it. ::bangin::

[Troll Control]

On 2005-08-15 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Dysfunctional- You have absolutely no idea what kind of parents anyone who posts on these boards might be. Your anger and hatred colors your judgement so completely that you are making a total fool out of yourself. It is a shame that you continue to ruin whatever constructive dialogue might occur on this forum.

Look, we are all sorry that you are a failure and that your criminal record haunts you. We're sorry you are lonely and sad.  But why the angry attacks on parents?  Do you honestly think these people, who are most likely nowhere near this board anymore, care what your opinion of them might be?  

I wish Ginger would talk to you privately, because you are really ruining the intent of this website."

i can't handle my own problems!  ginger!  quick, censor the site!  i need homogeneity quick!

wah wah wah :cry2:

[Nonconformistlaw]

Anon, you said------"Dysfunctional- You have absolutely no idea what kind of parents anyone who posts on these boards might be. Your anger and hatred colors your judgement so completely that you are making a total fool out of yourself. It is a shame that you continue to ruin whatever constructive dialogue might occur on this forum.
Look, we are all sorry that you are a failure and that your criminal record haunts you. We're sorry you are lonely and sad. But why the angry attacks on parents? Do you honestly think these people, who are most likely nowhere near this board anymore, care what your opinion of them might be?
I wish Ginger would talk to you privately, because you are really ruining the intent of this website."----------

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Despite all the mudslinging from both sides, DJ, unlike you, or other trolls, always makes extremely good points, gives facts to support arguments, asks reasonable questions, and presents both his points and questions in such a way that demands attention. Despite all the ugliness, sometimes there IS a value in "demanding attention" so to speak.

But anon, YOU chose to focus on the ugliness, instead of the message. I might also add, you know perfectly well, that you trolls instigate a hell of a lot more nastiness and ugliness than anyone.

You dont happen to have a mirror around do you?  ::rainbow::

[Antigen]

On 2005-08-15 09:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

I wish Ginger would talk to you privately, because you are really ruining the intent of this website.

DJ! Go to your room this instant and think about respecting your elders! Woops! Sorry, I forgot... I'm not DJ's mama.

How's it going getting info on New Horizons? Any luck getting the parents to wake up and pay attention?

Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? ... If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
-- Patrick Henry

[Antigen]

Are we talking about New Horizons Youth Ministry? Escuela Caribe? We do have some info on that. That second thread has links to some other forums and a book about the place.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6659&forum=9

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5305&forum=9

To be an atheist requires strength of mind and goodness of heart found in not one of a thousand.
--Samuel Taylor Coleridge, English poet, critic, journalist, philosopher

[Oscar]

Found this statement. Points out both positive and negative things:

Our son was at the ranch for just under 6 months. Rosie and Tom Harrell and their staff are good living people with servant hearts and a love for those in their care. In just over a month, our son, D, gained 20 pounds got a great tan and looked healthy and strong. The meals are amazing for the boys. We were able to visit a few times during this time and were welcomed by all. We spent Thanksgiving with D at the ranch which was a gift. The ranch life is very busy and there are many needs and challenges that they deal with to the best of their ability. In some ways, Tom and Rosie may have saved his life and we will always be grateful. We were in a desperate place and the ranch came highly recommended as a place where D would receive the best care. The ranch has been a healing place for many boys and families. They run two homes and they do their best. Our son turned 18 while at the ranch. The reason we sent him there was due to substance abuse. In my opinion, the ranch is a wonderful place for the those with defiance issues etc, but they are not qualified to treat serious problems such as addiction. The most recent research shows that addiction has four different stages: recreational, experimental, self-medicating, and full addiction. Professionals are required at the last stage. In our situation, despite many phone calls, he never received any treatment from a qualified counsellor or a doctor. Would it have made a difference? Who knows? The appointments were never made. The promised weekly phone calls rarely came, and it was very stressful. To be fair, the ranch was undergoing much change while D was there. They were moving, there was family emergencies, new staff coming on board. and others leaving. School never started until mid October that year. We discovered too late that D had not completed his credits. There were no consequences and no returned phone calls. Again, perhaps all that really matters in the long run is that he was safe. Grace and truth go together. I'm writing a fair and balanced account of our time with the ranch. If regular communication, qualified medical expertise and a sound education are important, you may face some challenges. I hope in time they will have a fitness program in place, opportunities for the boys to work and feel responsible, and better communication for the parents. Building projects that were supposed to include the boys never happened. In my opinion, there is a great need for outside professionals to be part of the program. Well qualified medical staff involved in assessments, followup appointments and visits to the ranch on a regular basis with the boys would be invaluable. Team meetings where information is shared with the staff would be beneficial. With the best of intentions, there were gaps in the program. Perhaps there have been some improvements recently. It's been 2 years since D left the ranch. In the short time he was there, he had some great experiences, the best being that he was challenged in his faith. He has matured a great deal since then and the ranch is now part of our story. We are so grateful that we have a good relationship with our son and know that God is at work. Nothing is every wasted. Nothing is ever perfect. For those who are on a similar journey, I hope you find these comments helpful. Please feel free to contact me. CJ

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