Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Some insight(s)
Anonymous:
wwwiz.com/issue02/wiz_d02.html
here's a pic of Ginger Warbis
Antigen:
Wow, that's a really old and not a very good picture. Thanks for the memories. But what does this have to do w/ the price of real estate in Florida?
Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet
--- End quote ---
Stripe:
What's really cute is that our buddy Art continues to pull quite a bit of "income" on a tax free basis.
Did you know that there is a "seed-based" mortgage company that is still in existence today that provides Barker with his retirement money? I'm not sure if it was funded the Senior Holding Inc. One or Senior Holding Two. Right now it's called Smart Mortgage Corporation ( run Ken Novak (pres, asst sec & director) and Scott Barrett (VP, S, T and Director) and Art Barker as a Director)
If I followed this correctly, the company holds mortgages which it then sells/transfers/assigns Art Barker in exchange for a promissory note. Barker then collects the mortgage payments - tax free income to him because money paid to him are note payments on the mortgage. These aren't continous payments - evetually the mortgage is reassigned to another entity or the property is sold altogether. It looks like he gets to collect on one or two mortgages every year. A nice completely tax-free pension, don't you think? It's shady but legal.
And others do it, too. Art and his seed-real estate buddies and seed-lawyers are not the only smart guys. Ya just need a nice nest egg to start with - which I suspect may have been the proceeds from the original 501(c)(3) that was, oh be still my heart, The Seed.
In fact, Art's company is (or was the last time I checked) one of the holders of the mortgage for a new drug rehab in Delray Beach, FL.
If you guys think the seed or its progeny would ever give up the money teat, think again.
Anonymous:
to ginger - no this isnt bob or lybbi.
to stripe - how is it shady to receive payments on a mortgage thru? someone makes a loan, and they make their mortgage payments on that loan? now i wouldnt think thats tax free as i would expect it to be corporate (or personal) income if there is a profit, but hey, i am not an accountant. still i would think this is a perfectly legal behavior. you as an individual can issue loans to people and receive payments on that interest till the loan is paid in full.
greg - not sure about any "mansion" but the house art last lived in that i was aware of was a nice house not certainly not a mansion. however on a price basis would go for a ton of cash these days. we've all seen the real estate boom occur and in ft lauderdale its been significant. i know he received donations of money at some point from private people and i believe used some of that to make the purchase years ago. then the prices went thru the roof some years later.
Anonymous:
Thoughts about John's Underwood?s post.
I am not sure I ever came in contact with you. I have some vague memory that you may have come up to Cleveland just before I graduated in 77.
You said you have little tolerance for immature, disruptive behavior. What constitutes immature behavior for a twelve year old?
I was twelve when I came into the program
You stated an opinion that people here are whining about little things but I suggest that the definition of a big thing that really hurts a person and a small thing that can be shrugged off varies by age and experience. A twelve year old girl who hates herself, don't get along with your parents, and got one to many detentions is going to be much easier to terrorize than a twenty five year old heroin addict who's determined to not go back to prison.
No one had to beat me in order to abuse me. I was an easy target.
I believed everything I was told, from the seed saved me from eminent death to the stated fact that the staff could read my mind. I never felt confident that I was straight enough despite the fact that I vigilantly tried to do everything right- constantly monitoring my every thought, feeling, and action to be sure it fit seed doctrine. Still I lived in constant fear that staff or some seedling, straighter than I, would smell unacceptable thoughts and feelings on me like shit on my shoes, scream at me for hours and start me over.
Nine months of this made me a very anxious girl with virtually no idea how I actually felt about anything.
Does that sound like health to you?
I haven't needed drug treatment as an adult. Thank God cause the little bits of AA the seed used ruined that option for me. I wouldn?t be able to sit next to posters listing the three steps without hyperventilating; the serenity prayer makes my queasy. I struggle to support friends who have found help in AA with out projecting all my fears on them and it's to bad because as I understand AA is a program where people come and go when their ready and make there own decisions unlike the seed where anyone who tried to leave was hunted down and dragged back while they were told that they were so full of shit they weren't worth saving. I have, however, needed treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, and expense for which I once considered suing the seed.
I few years ago I talked to a woman who was made staff when I was in the program. ?Yes,? she said she had noticed and was concerned when a twelve year old was admitted into the program. It was nice to know someone cared but I wonder why hadn?t she said something at the time; she was staff, beyond question, trusted. Then I realized no one was really safe there-- no one was ever beyond question.
Not all argument or disagreement is disruption, but it was seen so at the seed. The people who had the age and maturity to think their own thoughts seemed to know they had to keep those thoughts to themselves.
Look at your story. You disagreed. You were out
Let me be clear. I don?t blame anyone, not my parents who were told the seed was the best thing to do with me, not the staff members who were once on the front row them selves. But I think it is flippant and deflecting to judge the validity of other people?s pain. It?s just to damned easy cause-- there?s nothing so bad that it couldn?t be worse.
Thank you for having the guts to join this dialog. It can?t be easy to be the only x-staff member on board. It?s really appreciated.
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