Author Topic: Some insight(s)  (Read 36633 times)

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2005, 07:36:00 PM »
We have extremely credible testimony that many people fall for all their cryin poor mouth, all the while Art's living in a mansion, being chauffeured around in a stretch limo. And all the while Seedlings kept working for these self rightious hypocrites for free for years.

I understand some of the more legal minds among us have tracked significant assets to Lybbi (you?) How'd that happen? Didn't she (you?) ditch the family fortune for a life of pieous service to those Seedlings who mowed the lawns, washed the cars, etc?

Nothing of value to the individual happens by coercion.

--Plato

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2005, 08:17:00 AM »
He doesn't live in a mansion.  That house was on loan for a few years.  Someone donated the limo.  He had been shot at a few times, the limo looked like it could be useful.  It was sold about a year later. Maybe Lybbi's husband knew how to make money, lot of people do.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2005, 11:52:00 AM »
Really? The one in Venician Isles? Cause that was deeded to Art last time I checked a couple of years ago.

Point is, in the early days there were millions coming in and nothing going out. Only expenses were the building, slave wages for staff and, possibly, some insurance. Though I wouldn't put it past them at all to just neglect to acquire necessary insurance just like they never thought much of licensing or obeying laws against false imprisonment, etc.

In the later days, there was all that free labour people talk about. Still no real expenses. But all this money floating around among the inner circle.

Is this Bob. btw? And did you ever call your sister?

All contemporary religions and churches, all and every kind of religious organization, Marxism has always viewed as organs of bourgeois reaction, serving as a defense of exploitation and the doping of the working-classes.
--Nikolai Lenin, Russian revolutionary

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2005, 11:53:00 AM »
really?  That is so interesting. Tell us more...

What is the current value of the house Art lives in? How did he obtain it?

How does one obtain millions of dollars worth of property on a husband and wife seed staff income? Were seedlings paying rent and/or maintaining these properties?

Was Art barker a partner in any of this?

Wasn't the seed a "non profit Corporation"?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2005, 02:52:00 PM »
Quote
Site Address    
Property Owner  BARKER,ART & SHELLY  
Mailing Address  2845 NE 9 ST UNIT 1004 FT LAUDERDALE FL 33304  
   ID #  5042 01 AP 0360  
Millage  0332  
Use      04  
 
 
Legal Description  LE CLUB INTERNATIONAL CONDO UNIT 1004  
 
Property Assessment Values  
Year  Land  Building  Land Value AG  Total  Tax  
Current  $ 65,770    $ 591,970       $ 657,740      
2004  $ 59,790    $ 538,150       $ 597,940    $14,246.31  
2003  $ 56,950    $ 512,530         $ 569,480    $13,975.46  
 
Save Our
Home Value  Exemptions  
Type     Widow(er)'s/Veteran's/Disability     Homestead  Non-Exempt  
$ 615,870          $ 25,000    $ 590,870    
 
Sales History  
Date  Type  Price  Book  Page  
11/03    WD    $ 825,000    36485    48    
12/02    SWD    $ 700,000    34225    210    
               
               
                 
 Land Calculations  
Price  Factor  Type  
         
         
         
         
Adj. Bldg. S.F.    
 
 
Special Assessments    
Fire  Garbage  Light  Drainage  Improvement  Safe  
03                  
R                  
1                  
   
Please Note: Assessed values shown are NOT certified values and are
subject to change before final certification for ad valorem tax purposes.  

From: http://www.bcpa.net/


And here's the book page for the transaction:
http://fornits.com/anonanon/theseed/bar ... tydeed.pdf

Gee, I wonder who United Investments, The Title Company and Morgan Olsen and Olsen are? I wonder if that Morgan is any kin to the one after which the Morgan Yacht Building was named? So many questions, so few anwers...

Not bad for a washed up Vaudville comic who's been crying poor mouth for a living for the past 3 decades, eh?

I still think he ought to cut a check right now to everyone who ever mowed his lawn, washed his car, cleaned his house, guarded his properties or provided any other free service to him and his goons under the false pretense of giving to a worthy charity.

Drug War tells us everyone's body is common property
to be managed by the central government for our own
good, even if it kills us.  This is Communism!
Anonymity Anonymous
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2005, 03:49:00 PM »
wwwiz.com/issue02/wiz_d02.html
here's a pic of Ginger Warbis
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2005, 04:09:00 PM »
Wow, that's a really old and not a very good picture. Thanks for the memories. But what does this have to do w/ the price of real estate in Florida?

Forgive, O Lord, my little joke on Thee and I'll  forgive Thy great big one on me.
--Robert Frost, American poet

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Stripe

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« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2005, 04:48:00 PM »
What's really cute is that our buddy Art continues to pull quite a bit of "income" on a tax free basis.

Did you know that there is a "seed-based" mortgage company that is still in existence today that provides Barker with his retirement money?  I'm not sure if it was funded the Senior Holding Inc. One or Senior Holding Two. Right now it's called Smart Mortgage Corporation ( run Ken Novak (pres, asst sec & director)  and Scott Barrett (VP, S, T and Director) and  Art Barker as a Director)

If I followed this correctly, the company holds  mortgages which it then sells/transfers/assigns Art Barker in exchange for a promissory note.  Barker then collects the mortgage payments  - tax free income to him because money paid to him are note payments on the mortgage.  These aren't continous payments - evetually the mortgage is reassigned to another entity or the property is sold altogether.  It looks like he gets to collect on one or two mortgages every year.  A nice completely tax-free pension, don't you think? It's shady but legal.

And others do it, too. Art and his seed-real estate buddies and seed-lawyers are not the only smart guys. Ya just need a nice nest egg to start with - which I suspect may have been the proceeds from the original 501(c)(3) that was, oh be still my heart, The Seed.

In fact, Art's company is (or was the last time I checked) one of the holders of the mortgage for a new drug rehab in Delray Beach, FL.

If you guys think the seed or its progeny would ever give up the money teat, think again.
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The person who stands up and says, ``This is stupid,\'\' either is asked to `behave\' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful ``Yes, we know! Isn\'t it terrific ?\'\' -- Frank Zappa

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2005, 07:02:00 PM »
to ginger - no this isnt bob or lybbi.

to stripe - how is it shady to receive payments on a mortgage thru? someone makes a loan, and they make their mortgage payments on that loan? now i wouldnt think thats tax free as i would expect it to be corporate (or personal) income if there is a profit, but hey, i am not an accountant. still i would think this is a perfectly legal behavior. you as an individual can issue loans to people and receive payments on that interest till the loan is paid in full.

greg - not sure about any "mansion" but the house art last lived in that i was aware of was a nice house not certainly not a mansion. however on a price basis would go for a ton of cash these days. we've all seen the real estate boom occur and in ft lauderdale its been significant. i know he received donations of money at some point from private people and i believe used some of that to make the purchase years ago. then the prices went thru the roof some years later.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2005, 12:32:00 PM »
Thoughts about John's Underwood?s post.
I am not sure I ever came in contact with you.  I have some vague memory that you may have come up to Cleveland just before I graduated in 77.

You said you have little tolerance for immature, disruptive behavior. What constitutes immature behavior for a twelve year old?  
I was twelve when I came into the program

You stated an opinion that people here are whining about little things but I suggest that the definition of a big thing that really hurts a person and a small thing that can be shrugged off varies by age and experience. A twelve year old girl who hates herself, don't get along with your parents, and got one to many detentions is going to be much easier to terrorize than a twenty five year old heroin addict who's determined to not go back to prison.
No one had to beat me in order to abuse me.  I was an easy target.

 I believed everything I was told, from the seed saved me from eminent death to the stated fact that the staff could read my mind.  I never felt confident that I was straight enough despite the fact that I vigilantly tried to do everything right- constantly monitoring my every thought, feeling, and action to be sure it fit seed doctrine.  Still I lived in constant fear that staff or some seedling, straighter than I, would smell unacceptable thoughts and feelings on me like shit on my shoes, scream at me for hours and start me over.
Nine months of this made me a very anxious girl with virtually no idea how I actually felt about anything.  
Does that sound like health to you?

I haven't needed drug treatment as an adult.  Thank God cause the little bits of AA the seed used ruined that option for me.  I wouldn?t be able to sit next to posters listing the three steps without hyperventilating; the serenity prayer makes my queasy.  I struggle to support friends who have found help in AA with out projecting all my fears on them and it's to bad because as I understand AA is a program where people come and go when their ready and make there own decisions unlike the seed where anyone who tried to leave was hunted down and dragged back while they were told that they were so full of shit they weren't worth saving.  I have, however, needed treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, and expense for which I once considered suing the seed.  

 I few years ago I talked to a woman who was made staff when I was in the program.  ?Yes,? she said she had noticed and was concerned when a twelve year old was admitted into the program.  It was nice to know someone cared but I wonder why hadn?t she said something at the time; she was staff, beyond question, trusted.  Then I realized no one was really safe there-- no one was ever beyond question.

 Not all argument or disagreement is disruption, but it was seen so at the seed.  The people who had the age and maturity to think their own thoughts seemed to know they had to keep those thoughts to themselves.

Look at your story. You disagreed.  You were out

Let me be clear.  I don?t blame anyone, not my parents who were told the seed was the best thing to do with me, not the staff members who were once on the front row them selves.  But I think it is flippant and deflecting to judge the validity of other people?s pain.  It?s just to damned easy cause-- there?s nothing so bad that it couldn?t be worse.

Thank you for having the guts to join this dialog.  It can?t be easy to be the only x-staff member on board.  It?s really appreciated.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2005, 12:51:00 PM »
Damned potent, Anon.

Quote
On 2005-10-15 09:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for having the guts to join this dialog. It can?t be easy to be the only x-staff member on board. It?s really appreciated.


Let me second that and also contradict you. I agree, it took some guts and some faith of conviction for John to join this conversation. Props for that. But he's not the only former staffer to post here. He's just the only one willing to use his real name. More props.

But I agree w/ the rest of what you've said. If honesty were really even a minor priority, let alone the most important rule, John and all the rest would have immediately dispelled the rediculous myth that they could read our minds. Instead, they fostered and encouraged it.

The will to learn is an intrinsic motive...The will to learn becomes a 'problem' only under specialized circumstances like those of a school where the curriculum is set, students confined, and a path fixed.
--Jerome S. Bruner, Harvard.

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2005, 12:53:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-15 16:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

to stripe - how is it shady to receive payments on a mortgage thru?


If I may, thought I'm not Stripe...

It's not usually shady to receive payments on a mortgage thru. However, it's shady as hell to cry poor mouth and trick vulnerable people into donating funds and volunteer hours for years on the pretense that it's all going to save skidrow junkies from a sad demise.

The reality is that the money went to make Art and his little gang of mindfuckers extremely wealthy.

Jails and prisons are the complement of schools; so many less as you have of the latter, so many more you must have of the former

--Horace Mann

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2005, 01:03:00 PM »
Hey thanks Antigen, glad to know I was clear.

There are other ex-staff members here?  I had no idea.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2005, 09:07:00 AM »
really, I am not being sarcastic.  The thought hadn't occured to me.  I wonder if any of them were there when I was?
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2005, 01:47:00 PM »
Oh, I didn't think you were being sarcastic. And yeah, there's at least one other former staffer who reads and posts here frequently. And I suspect at least one other did a drive by come down a few months back.

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes