The official solo day episode thread.

[Nihilanthic]

Ok... so yeah, they lie and mislead the children, nothing new. But what really got me today is, well, the whole fucking episode.

I'll reduce it to bullet points for the sake of my own sanity and anger management... dont wanna brood and blow up and rant on the first post of this thread. Anywho, back to the point:

1. They made it acceptable to isolate a troubled child for the sole purpose of making them freak out overnight, AND ABC went and tried to capitalize on that girl freaking out by using it on the splash screens!

2. They tried to discredit any sort of criticism of any program in this episode, calling the parents weak and gullable and the girl manipulative. WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS BEFORE?  :roll:

3. They kickstarted the camp to "boarding school" pipeline, by saying that the girl who wants to do better but wants to go home, not off to some damn school away from everyone she knows is justification to send her away!

(Yeah, the industry is using this program and then some to try to inject their bullshit in here. Let her struggle? Come on, they go out of their way to follow the industry dogma here... RTC AFTER THE CAMP! ANY CRITICISM IS FALSE! THEY ALL MANIPULATE! REGRESSION IS "GROWING"! ABUSED CHILDREN NEED TO BE SENT TO HAVE REGRESSIONAL TRAINING!)

4. Here is the real doozie to me... the 'mysterious ceremony' with all that bullshit to just cement the programming with indoctrination. How delightful? Lets make it MORE culty and require them to legally change their names to this american-indian-ripoff nomenclature as terms of graduation while we're at it... why not?

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-08-03 18:55 ]

[Anonymous]

it was an awesome episode and shows how effective wilderness therapy is.  the changes in the kids were monumental.

[Nihilanthic]

Who said it wasnt effective or that there were big changes?

The point that is being made isnt that its ineffective, its that its wrong to brainwash and manipulate and regress human beings.

Men seldom, or rather never for a length of time, and deliberately, rebel against anything that does not deserve rebelling against.

--Thomas Carlyle

[Anonymous]

they werent brainwashed- some manipulation is part of therapy and so is regression.  look how powerful they all were (except Jada) on the other side of the solos.  it helped them turn the corner.  the therapists did a great job

[Anonymous]

The ONLY people being brain washed are the gullable viewing audience.

[Nihilanthic]

Powerful? They were regurgitating their indoctrination and conforming ENTHUSIASTICALLY to get the hell out of the program, or becuase they were broken and really believed in it.

Again, quit drawing attention away from what we're saying and repeating "wow, look how effective it is"

Thast like saying "hey, ignore how evil the Nazis are, just concentrate on how good it is that they were sooo effective until they invaded Russia!"

May 12-13: Sowed Hemp at Muddy  hole by Swamp. August 7: Began to separate the Male from the Female at Do - rather too late.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/188301123X/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>George Washington (Diary)

[Anonymous]

you really are having trouble admitting that Sagewalk is helping some of these kids.  any positive outcomes and you howl BRAINWASHED.  the problem is that what they are learning is hard to retain if they get back into their old lives. that's why they go to boarding school so they dont slip back

[Nihilanthic]

When what they do is brainwashing to a "T", what the flying fuck do you expect me to say?

The whole paradigm is stress them until they break and program in whatever dogma you want them do.

You call it growth. I see it for what it is BY DEFINITION, regression. Sure, theyre programming in be a good kid, bla bla bla. They also program in "THE PROGRAM IS ALWAYS RIGHT" and "GET MORE KIDS IN IT".

Look, tell me this - if they were being beaten within an inch of their life directly to fix them while the beaters chanted all this new-agey fell good bullshit and "DO YOUR SCHOOL WORK" and "RESPECT YOUR PARENTS" to fix them, would you approve of it just becuase of the effect at the end?

THE ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS*. Plus the brainwashing will wear the fuck off, granted they didnt just pretend through the program to get out.
* Thanks to the anon for pointing out my grammatical mistake :wave:

G:   "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB:  "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-08-04 09:10 ]

[Anonymous]

I came across this thread out of Google when I was searching around for more Brat Camp articles and was curious to read what critics had to say.  

I'm disappointed that most criticism, and even the praise (which is blind at times) was rather weak.  The most frequent author on this thread appears to be some person named Nihilistic, who just seems really negative and full of spitfire.  Your arguments would sound stronger if you were less emotional and added more substantial evidence and raised good questions for measure.  Otherwise, at best, you're just ranting.  

I'm not trying to attack you, but if you're on this board typing your bloody finger tips off, you should present yourself as a critical thinker so that people actually WANT to read what you have to say.  

Cheers

[Anonymous]

wilderness is the jump-start to the therapeutic process. much more work is needed after the wilderness program which is why most of the kids (really all) need to go on to a residential school with therapy.  It has taken years for these kids and families to get where they are. At least at wilderness they begin to realize their own role in where they are and how their thinking is flawed.  This is what Nihil says is brainwashing. The kids aren't being beaten, but it does take drastic measures to move them off of where they have been for many years.

[Anonymous]

Sorry about that!  I spelled Nihilanthic's name incorrectly.

[Nihilanthic]

Anon, its NIHILANTHIC. Its from NIHILANTH, a character from a videogame. Im no Nihilist. BTW, learn to READ. Besides, you reek of the average forum troll, but whatever.

Anyway, yeah, Im emotional. I just saw children sobbing their eyes out on TV and ABC making it into  a spectacle. Do you expect me to be happy about it? People have emotions, and people tend to share them.

Now, anyway, regarding critical thinking - as compared to whom? Someone who blindly followed what the program dogma and believes all criticsm is 'lying manipulation'? I've been on here for over a year and when the industry spews the same dogmatic sort of counter-criticism against anyone who speaks against them to discredit ANY grievance against a program, it kind of gets on my nerves!

BTW, you speak of evidence... hello? WATCH THE SHOW. Look up the definition of 'coersion' and 'psychological regression' and 'manipulation'. Put two and two together, they manipulated those children and all Ive seen the whole time on the show is instigating them to have a regression! It was nothing but pushing them emotionally, physically, psychologically and otherwise with physical and emotional stress.

That girl crying her eyes out being lowered down a cliff and her subsequent TOTAL breakdown around the campfire is 'psychological regression" almost by textbook definition. And brainwashing, that is, controlling their situation and circumstances, controlling stimulus, controlling affection and pain, and instigating the braekdowns, is what I saw on TV over these past few weeks.

You saw the show, you see anything to dispute that? Were we not watching the smae thing? If you expect completely civil discussion when the topic is "ABC exploiting traumatized teenagers".

FWIW, no need to apologize, though, Im used to much more venomous insults from people here on this forum. You also wont ever make me as mad as "one who cares" has.

All we ask is to be let alone.
-- Jefferson Davis (1808-1889): First Message to the Confederate Congress, March,1861.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-08-03 19:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"wilderness is the jump-start to the therapeutic process. much more work is needed after the wilderness program which is why most of the kids (really all) need to go on to a residential school with therapy.  It has taken years for these kids and families to get where they are. At least at wilderness they begin to realize their own role in where they are and how their thinking is flawed.  This is what Nihil says is brainwashing. The kids aren't being beaten, but it does take drastic measures to move them off of where they have been for many years. "

HELLO? Earth to anonymous! The damned dictionary and any professional in the field of psychology would agree. It is BY DEFINITION! So sorry your spin upon it or the fact that its per your approval right now doesnt change that it is what it is and thats all that it is, baghead.

BTW, saying "they aren't being beaten physically, but it takes drastic measures" to excuse maltreatment and abusve by other, non beating means doesnt work when theres something like me around to call shenanigans on that excuse. Nothing excuses using psychological regression and taking advantage of their sensitized state to change their thinking and implant ideas through suggestion (which is brainwashing by definition, again, maybe if I keep repeating it you'll read it this time? :roll: ) and trying to call it therapy.

Its not therapy. Its weakening them, taking advantage of the weakness, and just brainwashing them to act like you want and calling it actual therapy, and be damned if its traumatic, abusive, or it wears off a few years after theyre gone.

I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others.  Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

--Abraham Lincoln

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-08-03 19:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"they werent brainwashed- some manipulation is part of therapy and so is regression.  look how powerful they all were (except Jada) on the other side of the solos.  it helped them turn the corner.  the therapists did a great job"

Yes, they turned a corner. They all learned that when they use the phrase "...time to reflect..." they score with the program.

They all learned many new cliches and slogans and how to use them to convince idiot counselors and parents that they are growing and changing. They all learned that learning slogans and cliches will help them in life. Wait and see what happens when they grow up and figure out how worthless cliches and slogans are.

[Anonymous]

fake it 'til you make it!  :grin: