Carlbrook

[Anonymous]

Just shut up and put your penis away now, Charles. Playtime is over.

[Anonymous]

What is so damaging in those IM transcripts  :question:

[Anonymous]

You said it yourself.. Some time ago... Lot of bullshit from you since and alot more bullshit from you before.

So what is it gonna be?

You gonna figure it out today or not?

No one here is gonna hate you for growing a backbone and owing up to the fact that you royally screwed the pooch. Probably get you some respect for being honest with yourself and others.

You're being a serious asshole.  Karen has starting to come around talking to the people here on Fornit...  Starting to realise the differences we (parnets and kids) have, and you're just pissed she didn't blow up like you wanted her to.  Selfish bastard you are.  Interested in nothing but petty revenge.  You're destroying your own reputation and self image by continuing this crusade of yours against her.  You have no compassion.  Typical of program staff.  You haven't changed a bit inside,  you've just changed sides.

Don't bother writing me back. I won't respond.  Go start your own website by yourself and talk to yourself.  Only by standing united do we have a chance against the programs.  They are winning now, and you are helping them by causing division.  You've become the person you flamed not so long ago, and even he has learned by now why it is important not to take potential allies for granted.  You have no place here but to spread your diseased, cynical pessimism, symptom of a program staffer, rejected and bitter... without purpose not that your enemy is dead.

So tell me why you were really ever here?  Did you do it for the kids?

Maybe i've said too much.  maybe i've had a few too many tonight (relatives)...  But i'm not going to sit here any longer and let you try to fuck up a good thing:  somebody willing to listen!!!

do you know how long i've wished for that personally.

 

[Anonymous]

Since my point was that this is pointless, I'm leaving the thread. :wave:

I hope Psy really does post those transcripts. It's taking him quite some time so I can't wait to see what he writes. Considering the ridiculous crap I've made him believe, there ought to be some really fun shit in that. I'll even MST it

[Anonymous]

in the credibility dept i think psy is going to take the cake.. damage control  :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :exclaim:

[Anonymous]

Ignore milk and TSW. Skip past them. Pretend they are spam.

 add this to the regular quote rotation. :rofl:

[Anonymous]

in the credibility dept i think psy is going to take the cake.. damage control  :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :exclaim:

I think your mother is going to take the cake in the big black dick dept.  :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :exclaim:  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

It won't be long now...Milk will be creating a new user name...How many does this make?

[Karass]

What's really hilarious is that I have had some interesting and productive dialogues here that included MGDP, TSW and others when I was just "Guest." As a Guest I could be a member of Fornits,  but as someone with a real username and with what I have said and done, I'm just another stupid program parent to be ignored or flamed. I have on this forum and ST expressed mostly anti-program sentiments and have advised other parents publicly and privately to stay away from the Troubled Teen industry, and to not send their kid to wilderness and especially to not send their kid to a Therapeutic Boarding School which is neither therapeutic nor much of a school. If I have helped even one parent (and I think it's many more than that) to avoid making a mistake, then I've had a positive impact.

I feel lucky that my son had a positive experience in the wilderness, but I know that many others do not. "Luck" should not be a factor when consider "therapy" or "recovery" options, and my wife and I were foolish and definitely beyond desperate at the time. The fact that I still post here and on ST should be a good indicator that (a) I'm not really "ok" with what we did, (b) I don't want other parents to make uninformed decisions that could really fuck up their kids and (c) I resent the strong pressure that was applied to us to send him to a TBS after wilderness, despite the fact that he did so well in WC (by their assessment, not just mine) and that I felt like 7 weeks was already a pretty long time for him to be away from the real world.

Every time I try to write about wilderness, I find myself using words that appear to defend it, even when just trying to explain what happened and what didn't happen.

I apologize for trying to compare how wilderness therapy today is different from boot camps or abusive death marches like Challenger. To do so only sounds "pro-program" and might encourage some parent to send their kid to wilderness after they catch him smoking his first joint. That would be wrong on many levels and would undo what little bit of good I may have done these last few months.

[Anonymous]

It won't be long now...Milk will be creating a new user name...How many does this make?

What was his last one???

[Anonymous]

Ignore milk and TSW. Skip past them. Pretend they are spam.

 add this to the regular quote rotation. :rofl:

........ :roll:  :roll:

[hanzomon4]

They did a physical at the base facility before the kids were sent into the field. Also, if I remember correctly, we had to provide a great deal of information (20 pages or so) ahead of time.

"Bans" meant you weren't allowed to speak to a certain person or group of people. You could also be on "bans" from an activity-like reading. If someone felt two people were spending too much time together- usually a boy and a girl- they might be put on "bans" with each other. You had to completely ignore that person- not even hold a door for them. At one point my son was on bans with all females except the most senior students at the school. There was a female version of my son there who was on bans with all the boys.

I am not sure what all 2N would accept in terms of conditions such as clinical depression etc. I would have to look at the website. I do know several of the kids in my son's group had severe ADD (which made my not particularly patient son crazy).

ops: Bans!! I get it now.... I'll checkout their site for the other stuff... Thanks

You forgot Aaron Bacon, who was from my neck of the woods. You also don't necessarily understand or agree that a lot has changed since the days of Challenger and uncaring assholes like Steve Cartisano. You can agree or disagree with the "therapy" in "wilderness therapy" but this is way different from a tough-love bootcamp.

No it's not that different, as I said it depends on the people in charge of the students.. I have no Idea what program your kid went to and my post was not about demonstrating what went on at the program you chose.  Also I never said that staff didn't care. Most deaths are a product of a conditioned mentality... that mentality being that any resistance or compliant should be met with "tough-love"... Look at the Anderson case a nurse was present during the beating but did nothing, Tough-love? Yes... Malicious? No
Remember the philosophy is that the kids need a wake up call, not sympathy. The denial of health care is seen as helping not harming in facilities that have been thoroughly conditioned in the "Tough-love" punitive environment. I would say that this "conditioning" exist in varying degrees at every facility. To believe that abuse happens only in programs with sadistic staff would be a gross misunderstanding of the issue. Like I said a few pages back, in punitive programs the line between what is acceptable and what is not can become blurred into a discombobulated state causing well meaning people to do horrible things. I'm not saying this happened in the facility your kid went to, but to say that it affects boot-camps and not wilderness programs is ridiculous.
         

Let me again state that I don't know what program your child went to and I'm not trying to filter your experience through the many cases of abuse I know about... My last post was simply stating that in unnatural situations natural consequences take on a different meaning   dependent on those in charge... If the environment is punitive in nature the possibility of harm is much greater then in a therapeutic setting due to the conditioned mentality of the environment. I do understand however that what I consider to be abuse others may not, so again it depends on the person and their purpose..

[hanzomon4]

Hey Charly, I found the website and I have some questions...

• Can you explain what these two things are, it's from the "fire stage"
  • Accept the personal feedback process
  • Prepare Letter of Accountability

For those interested here's the link to Second Nature

@Psy I would like to get your input on the stages, not the concept but the actual specifics of the different stages...

Some of the behaviors they claim to treat I doubt could be helped with any wilderness program, but I'll call them up to see why they think wilderness can help things like depression, add/adhd/, and asperger's.

[Charly]

I don't know what the personal feedback process is.  I'll have to ask my son if he remembers.
The Letter of Accountability is the letter the kid writes to the parents (when they are ready) owning up to what happened and taking responsibility for the things they did.  For example, my son had to be accountable for getting kicked out of school- not because the "headmaster is an ass" but because he repeatedly broke rules and broke the terms of his suspension. He apologized for some of our things he deliberately harmed (like my husband's car) and for breaking all of our household rules (which were minimal, I might add).  He had to apologize for stealing things from us and others.

[Nihilanthic]

These pro-WT parents had other options they simply can't admit to it because then there would be nothing else to talk about.  Why are they even wasting their time here?  Far as I can tell, none of them are on the payroll of a WT program nor are their kids currently in a WT program.  Is the point to sell other parents on the idea of sending their kids to a WT?  Defend a specific WT program against allegations made by other parents (or actual participants)?  If so, then I think Fornits might want to consider charging these WT posters by-the-word to compensate for the use of this board as a marketing tool.  :lol:

I am not trying to sell anything.  Also, I would love to know of other options because that is what I would suggest to other parents.  I still haven't been given any alternatives that would have worked for my family's particular situation at the time we sent our son to wilderness.
No one is marketing anything.  We are pointing out some of the things we think were positives and listening to the opposing viewpoints.

Thats because there is no alternative, there is no easy button, and you wont be given something that doesn't exist. The "choice" for the PARENT to take as in sending the kid away to some institution or camp that you think must exist... doesn't. There isnt one!

IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!

Stop saying that we're not credible until we give you one, Karen! There is no damned "parenting button" you can go press and fix your kid. The answer is its hard, and its what people have always done until someone mixed old reformatories with erhards bullshit:

Being a parent.

Please dont make us repeat this again!