Carlbrook

[Nihilanthic]

You can't just say something and not back it up, becuase as he said, this is not ST.

And don't think I'll just bow down or forget about this, I'm not going to sit here and let you advocate something you can't even discuss in any level of detail!

If you're too flustered, then go get unflustered, but don't think I'm going to just go "oh okay I'll let you just say it", because I'm not.

At any rate, on FORNITS, you dont get a request for specifics and say "I'm not arguing with you about it". Its not an arguement, its a request for specifics, and you can't hide behind a top-to-bottom hierarchial "stfu" in other words here.

[Charly]

I'll write more about it tomorrow.   Want to watch Without a Trace right now.

[Nihilanthic]

Then go do it, you're not chained to the computer nor coersed to write here.

Just realize that a lot of people ARE forced to respond to stuff they do not want to, and they're a lot younger than you or I.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for answering my previous inquiries. I have a few more if you don't mind.

Is there a level system?
Is there a peer review system (do kids get put in charge of other kids)?
Is there repititious auditory therapy (repeated tapes or music)?
Any type of extended seminar, rap or group therapy session?

What are the living conditions like? Do they share a room, or do they live dorm style in a big large room all together? How are the bathroom faciltiies, private, or group shared?

Are they allowed to keep stereos and radios in there room, or any other electronic device such as a laptop?

What type of contact with parents do they allow? Phone calls, letters, email? How often, do you have to obtain a certain level?

How often is therapy received? Daily? Biweekly, weekly, and for how long? Do these therapists keep confidential or do they share this information with other staff?

Is there isolation punishment at Carlbrook?

Are all kids allowed to play sports, allowed to eat the same foods, allowed the same basic privelages or is this all level based?

Do the boys and girls interact at Carlbroook? Are the classes segregated by sexes, how close are their dorks, do they get to interact afterhours or during the day, how does that work?

Is there a fence around the campus? How close is it to the city? Have many kids run away from the facility? Is it in a bad area of town?

What is included in the monthly cost? Do they add on many more fees after you place your child, like uniforms and doctor fees?

Do they accept and treat psychologically damaged teens, with bipolar, severe depression, etc? WIll they disperse psychotropic meds to the kids if they are prescribed before attending the school?

How long is the typical graduation time?

Do they require every kid go to wilderness before entering the school? Is the wilderness company associated with them finanially?

These will get us started on specifics.

[Nihilanthic]

WILDERNESS SPECIFICS.

Plus, she has already answered a lot about CARLBROOK.

Do not try to obfuscate or jack this thread, 'cause it ain't happenin'.

[psy]

Carlbrook has the appearance of a nice southern prep school. The boys wear ties to class.  The academics are fairly strong- the best of any TBS. The kids go on to good colleges. The academic faculty tends to think the emotional growth part is bs.

Not surprised at all.  They are more likely more educated than the rest of the staff.

It was a teacher who mentored my son and encouraged him to try to get out of Carlbrook and go to a regular prep boarding school.  There are some fields for sports and a basketball court and a decent weight room.  There is now a new dining hall which is supposed to be nice.  The days are structured like a regular school, but with group therapy in the afternoon. (not every day).  There is some community service work. The commons building is really nice- there is an art room and a lot of kids have musical instruments.  
There are boys and girls and they do interact.  They are not permitted to have romantic relationships, but they do.  If someone thinks a couple is getting too close, they get put on bans with each other and are not allowed to speak.
It is the closest thing to a regular boarding school I could find.  It wasn't close enough for my son- no computer, no cell phone, too much therapy and no real sports.

Carlbrook sounds, from a parent's perspective, almost exactly like benchmark.

Did you ever wonder why they wouldn't allow your kid to have a phone / computer?

Did you ever wonder how they "knew" kids were having relationships?

Did you ever know about the "snitching" aspect of the program?

Did carlbrook have qualified (phd / licenced psychologist) staff? on hand who actually did the counseling?  were any counselors not qualified?

[Anonymous]

WILDERNESS SPECIFICS.

Plus, she has already answered a lot about CARLBROOK.

Do not try to obfuscate or jack this thread, 'cause it ain't happenin'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism

[Nihilanthic]

WILDERNESS SPECIFICS.

Plus, she has already answered a lot about CARLBROOK.

Do not try to obfuscate or jack this thread, 'cause it ain't happenin'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism

 :rofl:  :rofl:

Oh, now we're getting 100% programmie here, gonna attack me instead of answer a question that needs to be answered?

Nice ad-hominem.

[troll1]

[psy]

WILDERNESS SPECIFICS.

Plus, she has already answered a lot about CARLBROOK.

Do not try to obfuscate or jack this thread, 'cause it ain't happenin'.

you got the website already.  second nature, utah.  they don't use bm, they have sat phones and medics in all groups, they have licenced therapists.

Second Nature Wilderness Program is NOT a boot camp for troubled teens. In fact, Second Nature Wilderness Program strongly disputes the enduring efficacy of any boot camp program for troubled youth. Boot camps, by design, are behavior modification paradigms, using coercion and hardship to negatively reinforce appropriate behavior. Second Nature is not a teen boot camp and has no affiliation with any such programs. Second Nature is a wilderness therapy program that provides psychoeducation, sophisticated and individualized therapy, and wilderness realism to highlight choices and consequences for your troubled teen, which aids in guiding students toward long term ambitions.

[Nihilanthic]

So if this is where Carlbrook sends their bad kiddos, what happens if the bad kid remains bad, does this place kick them out?

And anyway, what I'm asking for is something to be put in this thread about specifically what this place does and what the day to day life is like, and how the consentuality issue is addressed.

Basically, if a kid doesnt like it, can he leave? Can he leave after being semi-coersed against it? Are they allowed hygene and decent nutritious food instead of beans/lentils? Are they forced into anything at all?

[psy]

Answer the damn questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One more nail through your vampire like heart.

Ask yourself: "Will that comment be more likely to get her to answer the questions or not?"

If the answer is "yes"... you're program staff
If the answer is "no"... you're probably right
If the answer is "i don't care"... why throw a spanner in the thread?

she's watching a tv program... give her the benefit of the doubt.  Why do I bother you wonder?  Becuase to me, she represents the most difficult parent to reach.

Think about why that's important to me.

[Nihilanthic]

Well your patience and restraint is pretty herioc. I've never even set eyes on a true-blue program, psy - you did more than just survive one, you got out of one, and here you are, and here I am.

I hope you can actually instigate some comprehension, not just 'open dialogue'... talking at eachother doesn't really get us anywhere, actually understanding, does.

[psy]

Well your patience and restraint is pretty herioc. I've never even set eyes on a true-blue program, psy - you did more than just survive one, you got out of one, and here you are, and here I am.

I hope you can actually instigate some comprehension, not just 'open dialogue'... talking at eachother doesn't really get us anywhere, actually understanding, does.

Talking, unless it turns to conflict, inevitably results in understanding.  Harsh confrontations are the realm of programs.

Thanks for the compliment though.  I'm sure Charley will be back later to answer the questions.  She's a lawyer, just keep it civil and use reason.  My guess is she won't walk away from a discussion / argument as long as it stays away from insults.

Yeah i know she has a bad rap here.  But let's try and give her a chance.  She has a username, she's avoiding attacks.  So far so good.

[hanzomon4]

Thanks for the info Psy it looks like a good program. Nihil, I don't like programs or sending kids away but that does not make every program bad. I think Charly's explained herself well, her son appears to be doing well and that's the important thing. She made a difficult decision and seems to have struck gold with the wilderness program.

I wanted to discuss this stuff with a parent, and she's done that. Don't get all aggressive with her, you can voice your disagreements and agree to disagree in a non threating(or condescending) manner. If you're looking for her to say that the place is hell regardless of her(and her son's) impression you're just fighting a fruitless battle. I know how easy it is to lose sight of mutual respect when debating an issue filled with so much passion on both sides, but it's those debates that such respect is needed the most. And honestly we're all arguing the same point from different angles.... That point being that The well being of a child should not be compromised by neither unscrupulous facilities or a lack of access to appropriate therapeutic options.

And if your just pissed at the moment take a break..

[Nihilanthic]

The issue of abandonment, isolation, and being put into a completely alien environment can't simply be put to the wayside. I have heard professionals say that removing a child from an abusive home into a foster home (which is no program, ideally anyway...) can actually still be harmful because they lose everything when that is done, not just the abuse.

So then why is it all songbirds and sunshine if its a program? Losing your friends, family, freedom, comforts and autonomy and being on someone else's clock is not insignifigant enough to be overlooked.

My biggest beef besides the #800 gorilla that is lack of proof of any good done is what I have said above, and I really don't get why its so rarely addressed.