Carlbrook

[Anonymous]

"The workshops are done by peer group, so there are about 15 kids in each one"

As usual, you misunderstood that. This is the number of kids in the peer group, give or take.  There is a very competent adult leader- not a kid. There are some more senior program kids "supporting" the kids in the workshop, but no one has power over anyone else.  This is another example of your misunderstanding of how the whole thing works.
Rico Moreno is a very successful young man- you are very quick to discredit what he has to say about Carlbrook.  Why are you so threatened by a success story?

[Troll Control]

On 2006-04-13 10:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

This is a Carlbrook thread. Yes, they use a program based on workshops. As has been discussed, these are non-abusive and the kids value them highly.

Nobody ever gave the details of the workshops.



One, have you been in a student workshop?



Two, how can you speak for all kids?



Three, if you know that they aren't abusive, please give a "blow-by-blow" on the nature of the workshops (please refrain from saying things like "They're about friendship and relationships" - that will only show you don't know what goes on inside the workshops).  Give a rundown on all of the details.



-How long are they?

-How many kids?

-What do they do?

-What "exercises" do they engage in?

-etc.
"

You didn't answer these questions.

I'd like to know the exact specifics, please.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 10:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

""The workshops are done by peer group, so there are about 15 kids in each one"



As usual, you misunderstood that. This is the number of kids in the peer group, give or take.  There is a very competent adult leader- not a kid. There are some more senior program kids "supporting" the kids in the workshop, but no one has power over anyone else.  This is another example of your misunderstanding of how the whole thing works.

I know exactly how this "whole thing" works.  Those kids "supporting" in the workshops are expected to tow the program propoganda line.  If not, they're punished in some form.

How competent are the adult leaders?  YOu say they are but what qualifications do they have to facilitate this type of public disclosure, forced conformity etc?

Rico Moreno is a very successful young man- you are very quick to discredit what he has to say about Carlbrook.  Why are you so threatened by a success story?"

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 10:54:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:



Three, if you know that they aren't abusive, please give a "blow-by-blow" on the nature of the workshops (please refrain from saying things like "They're about friendship and relationships" - that will only show you don't know what goes on inside the workshops).  Give a rundown on all of the details.





-How long are they?


-How many kids?


-What do they do?


-What "exercises" do they engage in?


-etc.

"

Excellent questions but I won't hold my breath for them to be answered.

[Troll Control]

Rico Moreno is a very successful young man- you are very quick to discredit what he has to say about Carlbrook. Why are you so threatened by a success story?

RED HERRING.  You pitched out this canard to avoid answering these questions:

One, have you been in a student workshop?

Two, how can you speak for all kids?

Three, if you know that they aren't abusive, please give a "blow-by-blow" on the nature of the workshops (please refrain from saying things like "They're about friendship and relationships" - that will only show you don't know what goes on inside the workshops). Give a rundown on all of the details.

-How long are they?
-How many kids?
-What do they do?
-What "exercises" do they engage in?
-etc.

Please answer the questions fully so that we may understand your grasp of the workshops.

[Anonymous]

I have not been through the Carlbrook workshops- and neither have you. If a graduate wants to debate this with you, I will leave it to them.
I don't have any issue with the workshops or how they are run.  The kids- and I have spoken to MANY of them- think they are very valuable and enlightening.
We get that DJ thinks they are harmful and worthless. Since you don't know anymore about how they operate than I do, I guess the best judge is the kids who have been through them.  We have one negative report.  Many positives that I am aware of.

[Troll Control]

Many positives that I am aware of.

Sorry, can't take your word for it.  

This is just one more example of "I don't know what I'm talking about, but everything is great."  

In reality, you have no clue what goes on in workshops...not a single clue.  Your word is really worth nothing in this matter.

[Troll Control]

Since you don't know anymore about how they operate than I do...

I'm actually very well versed in LGATS.  They have been PROVEN harmful.  It's not just my opinion, it's established fact.  

Do some research FIRST, THEN post.  It's not like there isn't forty years' wort of clinical evaluation of these seminars.  There's plenty of evidence out there that shows harm - they've been referred to as "psychic murder" by experts in the field.

As far as evidence that they are helpful, there is only your ignorant "word" to take ("ignorant" BTW, before you get off topic with more DJ bashing, is not an insult, it refers to the fact that you know nothing of the subject matter - admittedly so).

[TheWho]

On 2006-04-13 11:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have not been through the Carlbrook workshops- and neither have you. If a graduate wants to debate this with you, I will leave it to them.

I don't have any issue with the workshops or how they are run.  The kids- and I have spoken to MANY of them- think they are very valuable and enlightening.

We get that DJ thinks they are harmful and worthless. Since you don't know anymore about how they operate than I do, I guess the best judge is the kids who have been through them.  We have one negative report.  Many positives that I am aware of."

Hey, dont sweat it,  its the mentality of the argument.  You could have easily demanded to have them provide you with a list like:

? Which Universities/ colleges do you feel the counselors, advisors, Psychologists etc. should come from?  

If a school has a campus but more than 50% of their students participated in on-line courses, would this disqualify the students from ever working for Carlbrook?  How do you support your answer?

What degrees are acceptable?  and why?

Which on-line courses are not acceptable ? and why?

Please explain and layout an acceptable course outline for each position?

Which courses should be avoided if they plan to work at a TBS?

Should a candidate also have a background in education?  If,so which school?  Can these schools also offer online course?

Please provide a list of all overseas schools which you feel to be unacceptable and why.

Thank you, I?ll be waiting for you response.?

This is how some derail the argument when they don?t know how to respond.

[Anonymous]

Who, that's such bullshit.  Anyone who comes on here insisting that the seminars 'work' and are 'beneficial' is going to be asked to back that up.  Just like when we state that they're harmful and you guys ask us to back it up...difference being we do it with facts and clinical studies, you guys try to justify it with 'internal surveys' and anecdotes.

[Badpuppy]

Are kids threatened if they do not open up? Are these workshops based on Lifespring? Are kids deprived of sleep or food during these seminars? How many consecutive hours do these last?  When are they allowed breaks? How are they different than WWASP seminars? Lots of kids speak highly of the WWASP seminars although they are highly clinically inappropiate. Just a version of brainwashing.[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-13 12:21 ]

[TheWho]

On 2006-04-13 12:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Who, that's such bullshit.  Anyone who comes on here insisting that the seminars 'work' and are 'beneficial' is going to be asked to back that up.  Just like when we state that they're harmful and you guys ask us to back it up...difference being we do it with facts and clinical studies, you guys try to justify it with 'internal surveys' and anecdotes."

or we can speak to our kids about whether or not it was abusive.  We may get some detail or maybe not any and that may be our position, doesnt make it invalid.
I havent demanded clinical studies that state ASR or Carlbrook is harmful.  If I had the discussion would be over because they dont exist.  So the next best thing is to get feed back from those who attended or are affiliated.  As parents we dont know every detail of every program, how much detail can you get from a kid who is attending the local high school about his or her day?

[Troll Control]

On 2006-04-13 12:11:00, TheWho wrote:

"

On 2006-04-13 11:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I have not been through the Carlbrook workshops- and neither have you. If a graduate wants to debate this with you, I will leave it to them.


I don't have any issue with the workshops or how they are run.  The kids- and I have spoken to MANY of them- think they are very valuable and enlightening.


We get that DJ thinks they are harmful and worthless. Since you don't know anymore about how they operate than I do, I guess the best judge is the kids who have been through them.  We have one negative report.  Many positives that I am aware of."

Hey, dont sweat it,  its the mentality of the argument.  You could have easily demanded to have them provide you with a list like:



? Which Universities/ colleges do you feel the counselors, advisors, Psychologists etc. should come from?  



If a school has a campus but more than 50% of their students participated in on-line courses, would this disqualify the students from ever working for Carlbrook?  How do you support your answer?



What degrees are acceptable?  and why?



Which on-line courses are not acceptable ? and why?



Please explain and layout an acceptable course outline for each position?



Which courses should be avoided if they plan to work at a TBS?



Should a candidate also have a background in education?  If,so which school?  Can these schools also offer online course?



Please provide a list of all overseas schools which you feel to be unacceptable and why.



Thank you, I?ll be waiting for you response.?



This is how some derail the argument when they don?t know how to respond.

"

Idiotic red herring.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-13 12:29:00, TheWho wrote:


I havent demanded clinical studies that state ASR or Carlbrook is harmful.  If I had the discussion would be over because they dont exist.

But there is strong clinical data that states that the seminars are harmful, very harmful.  Carlbrook and ASR both utilize the LGAT type seminars, no?

[Deborah]

On 2006-04-13 07:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Help Deb.......sorry.  ^^^^^^^^^"

Huh? Looks like things are going really well here, but happy to help if need be.