Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry

Carlbrook

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E Adams:
Interesting stuff on CEDU etc. I went to CEDU, went to RMA in BF ID (2+ yrs), while T Brace was headmaster, experienced all the stuff discussed in the "documentary", knew most of the people talked about, did "work details", propheets, I&M workshop and Summit, "split" etc, the whole 9 yards. And to a certain extent the facts as told are just a small part of the story. People who "volunteer" information and lambast the schools are the people who feel the strongest about it (by and large), who had "bad" experiences for whatever reason. Most people who went there do not post on message boards or write articles or make documentaries. Most just get on with their lives. Some don't. I haven't read everything on this site but I did know Tim Brace (I was a 16-18 yr old student and he was a ~40 yr old staff member, then Headmaster). My sense from what I've read here (and I've certainly not read all of it) is that most of the negativity comes via 2nd hand sources or public articles or due to some agenda or another or is just trite -- or worse. The Tim Brace I knew was (and probably still is) a pretty good guy (in the sense that I believe he legitimately cared about kids - canNOT be said for many). Maybe some people didn't like him or don't but saying things like "my brother says he' just a ____" or whatever it is - that's just not very descriptive - or meaningful - is it?  I saw and heard some pretty weird crap while I was in high school - but you can see a lot worse today on the News. To say with a straight face that CEDU or RMA or Carlbrook (for that matter) is cultish or involved in brainwashing or some big evil conspiracry (more than possibly a form of tuition-level piracy at least) seems a bit left of the point - if not ludicrous. You go in, you come out, you're the same person but with a few more experiences all in all. What a person chooses to do with that experience would seem to be up to them. Some people go to scary movies and see monsters, some see actors in make up. Basically I guess all I'm saying is that there were some screwed up people in that whole game but T Brace was never one of them. I can't speak for everyone but so it seems to me.

try another castle:

--- Quote ---What a person chooses to do with that experience would seem to be up to them. Some people go to scary movies and see monsters, some see actors in make up.
--- End quote ---

Interesting. So, to be clear, are you saying that a person who suffers from trauma is choosing to do so?

Kind of that whole "I am responsible for what I see." line from the summit?

I find your logic of comparing 2.5 years at CEDU to the experience of watching a 90 minute horror movie to be inherently flawed. Especially since you can always walk out of a movie theater. (Although, interestingly enough, I have always maintained that if there were ever to be a fictionalized film based on CEDU, the only person qualified to really capture the feel of that place would be David Lynch.)

Also, it seems you are conflating the people who frequent forums on this issue to be people who haven't "gotten over it". What is your basis for that observation? Simply because they choose to talk about it? Process it? Do you also feel that having an agenda for putting a stop to the troubled teen industry can be  boiled down to butthurt plain and simple? Granted, there are lots of people who still have issues and are working towards closure, (and I personally don't think that's a bad thing) but are you absolutely sure that every single person who chooses to discuss their experience are navel-gazers who pick at emotional scabs? Or is it just people who have been out 20+ years? What is your statute of limitations on that? 5? 10? And if so, how did  you come to that conclusion? Was there a study? A control group? (I personally maintain that there *should* be a study, actually. Let's see how "successful" these duck farms really are, once and for all.)

I also call into question your assumption that people who choose not to discuss it have "moved on", whatever that means. Outward appearances and actions do not always belie how someone has processed an experience. I personally feel that people are all over the map on this, whether they are outspoken about it or not, and I would never be so arrogant as to assume where they are at with their experience simply by their decision regarding how they conduct themselves outwardly. Granted, I didnt always have that opinion.

BTW, I was there when you were, during the "camelot" era, and as for where I "am at" regarding that experience... well.. I don't really take offense at people assuming one way or the other with me. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, of which I care little. Fact of the matter is, the phenomena of "tough love" is fascinating in how it manifests itself, both on a personal, political and sociological level, and well, that is something that's pretty darn interesting in my eyes. Regardless of whether you find your experience positive, negative, or just "meh", you can't deny that it was weird.

As for the Tim Brace issue, I agree that there are a lot of differing opinions on him. I was there when he was headmaster, spent many an hour in his raps, on the floor, he ran my IWTL, etc... My personal impression is that overall, he was far from simply complicit when it came to towing the party line. He was a staunch advocate of the CEDU way, and that, I certainly have problems with. He actively partook in fostering the melodrama associated with the regressive techniques used in CEDU's form of "therapy", whether it be in raps or propheet/workshops. Im sure you can corroborate how raps and such with him often involved running one's anger, and resulted in reducing most participants into a sobbing, weepy mess. Oh, a Tim Brace rap, well, looks like everyone will be "taking care of their feelings". Oh, Tim's running the warm up, most people will be crying like babies after that.

Not sure about you, but I do NOT find that to be a valid form of therapy, and I find it to be counterproductive to any sort of actual emotional development. He is not, and never was, qualified to "treat" any teen, nor assist them with emotional matters, and his opinions on "emotional growth" were as flawed as everyone else's there. Plain and simple, his tactics and behavior were harmful... at BEST.

The fact that he seems like "an ok guy" because he wasn't as confrontational as other staff (and I agree, he was not known for aggressively attacking someone's character) is misleading, because his tactics regarding "therapy" were just as misguided. It's actually rather pathetic that he was considered "ok", especially when it is as a result of comparing him with the brutal staff. Sure, he was "ok" and seemed "nice", but at CEDU, that's not saying a whole fuck of a lot.

Inculcated:
Well stated.
I’ve got to give props to someone who can frame an cogent response like yours that aptly includes suitable application of both the terms conflate and butthurt .

E Adams:
No. I am not sure about any of it. I suppose I think of the staff about like I think of stockbrokers, misguided & not very bright. I took it all with a grain of salt - and I don;t have a stockbroker now. Maybe it's because I was delivered to RMA by a 6'8" dude in penny loafers, I don't know? I didn't care for most of the staff, personally, and thought the program was silly. I still have friends from that time though (students) - some liked it, some didn't. Some felt violated, some didn't. I certainly don't feel strongly enough to research how other people feel about something that I went through. If you were there at the same time I was then we went through the same thing with the same people and maybe you were scarred by it and maybe I wasn't? Maybe we were in that IWTL together with TB? (I think they called it the Storeroom?) Maybe you found TB an evil nefarious person and maybe I saw him differently - who can say? I thought the program was pretty silly for the most part, and I knew it then, and I think it now - but I was never starved or beaten or whatever. I had to read JLS 1 too many times, hear a crap-pot full of bad John Denver tunes and move some rocks around - live at the "bingo parlor" and dig an outhouse hole, but I got over it. Maybe you're more sensitive than I am or maybe I'm just not in touch with my feelings. My point is that I neither find it negative nor positive, it was just something that happened. Maybe I learned from it or maybe not. And believe me, if I paraphrased anything from the Summit it was strictly accidental - the workshops were w/o a doubt some of the goofier things I've witnessed in my life but they were not "damaging" - to me. Maybe if you are captivated by that sort of thing they could be and I'm not saying you are. I think the staff were mostly just banal and if they suffered from anything it was stupidity more than anything else. There are exceptions of course - somebody was profiting from it after all. But I did not think TB was evil or had some nefarious purpose. DK-B on the other hand. Well I thought that guy was a $%*@!
So you were there, huh, 83-85ish? I had forgotten about the whole Camelot angle - exciting stuff.
My favorite staff member, if I had one, was Steve Kaufman (I think that was his name?). Remember him? Beard, glasses, local. Don;t think he ever really bought into it either, left shortly after I did if I recall?

E Adams:
And I never meant to imply it wasn't "weird". That was it's saving grace, that you couldn't miss the effin weird - It was bad Stephen King fiction cornfield f**k weird. I knew that when I was 16. I think if you somehow missed the weird, which seems almost impossible to me, then maybe you get messed up or join the staff or something? People did that I guess. But most noticed the weird right off. I split the first half of my second hour and was gone a week there was so much weird. You could smell the weird. It oozed weird. But it was just weird. And weird is funny. To me. I'm not gonna do a study on it or anything so I'll qualify that. I thought it was weird. Some people, possibly, in some research control group may find it normal. But you and I, we can agree: That place was weird. I just didn't find it particularly "dangerous," that's all.

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