Author Topic: Carlbrook  (Read 567398 times)

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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2595 on: March 24, 2009, 11:02:52 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "try another castle"
Look, Ill be the first to admit that CB is no WWASPS or Straight in terms of severity, (
.
Don't be so sure.

I never am. But I trust psy's assessment that a good way to describe CB would be "CEDU-lite", as he has had extensive conversations, online and over the phone, with CB parents and survivors. My point is that even if there are differences, they are programs, and share the industry philosophy.

program bad. hulk smash.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2596 on: March 25, 2009, 06:00:07 AM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "try another castle"
Look, Ill be the first to admit that CB is no WWASPS or Straight in terms of severity, (
.
Don't be so sure.

I never am. But I trust psy's assessment that a good way to describe CB would be "CEDU-lite", as he has had extensive conversations, online and over the phone, with CB parents and survivors. My point is that even if there are differences, they are programs, and share the industry philosophy.

program bad. hulk smash.

Aren't they all softer gentler versions of another program? dont buy and sell the party line. Some gulags ive been to are as bad as they come but simply dont have enough survviors coming foward to establish that, or have any online precense whatsoever.
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Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2597 on: March 25, 2009, 06:35:33 AM »
Quote
Aren't they all softer gentler versions of another program?

Actually, I think the operative word here is subtler... as in.. harder to bust. "Oh, look. This place doesnt seem all that bad. Not even close to tranquility bay."
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2598 on: March 26, 2009, 01:25:05 AM »
Yeah, but Laura walks around and listens in on phone calls.
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Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2599 on: March 26, 2009, 05:42:15 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Aren't they all softer gentler versions of another program? dont buy and sell the party line. Some gulags ive been to are as bad as they come but simply dont have enough survviors coming foward to establish that, or have any online precense whatsoever.

This is especially a problem with the smaller places, although there are many other factors in play (for example, in some programs kids are told that it is illegal to talk about their experiences or practices of the program due to "confidentiality"...  or threats of lawsuits...  so many factors can play a part in this).  But yes.  From talking to people from CB, it does seem that CB is more or less "cedu-lite", or a prep-school version of CEDU.  It's fancy on the outside but it has the same rotten core.

The propheets / workshops, for example, just have latin names now, for example.
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Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2600 on: March 26, 2009, 05:47:57 PM »
Quote from: "try another castle"
Quote from: "Guest"
JD is karen reincarnated!  :jawdrop:
I wonder how karen is doing, anyway. psy, do you keep in touch with her?

Karen is doing fine, I believe, but I haven't talked to her in depth for a while.  She wished me a happy birthday the other day and congratulated me for my accomplishments over the past year, but that's about it.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2601 on: March 26, 2009, 06:44:48 PM »
An anonymous tipster sent me the Carlbrook Parent Handbook.  See thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27206&start=0
Or download directly here:
http://www.fornits.com/cb/carlbrook-parent-handbook.pdf
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2602 on: March 26, 2009, 07:21:20 PM »
Wow.  this is a big handbook.   Notes as I read (sort of skimming it here)

Section 2.1:

Quote
Students will respect and honor the confidentiality of other students, families and
faculty.

And faculty?  So this means the kids can't talk about things the staff do?  Red flag there.

Quote
Students will not discuss workshop experiences or workshop tools with other students
who have not been through the workshop.

Which implies students go into these LGAT workshops without informed consent.  This is the main problem I have with the workshops.  If people knew exactly what they were getting into, I would have no problem.  The thing is that the workshops wouldnt' be nearly as "effective" in changing people without their knowledge or consent if people knew what to expect.  There is also the issue of hypnosis and closed-eye guided imagery being reportedly used.  Powerful tools that should only really be in the hands of professional psychologists (if anybody)...

Quote
Students will refrain from sexual or intimate activities with others.

This is fairly flexible.  I can see "initmate" as having quite a wide interpretation.  At teh CEDU based program I was in "intimacy" could be a close friendship.

Section 2.3:

Quote
Students will abide by the School’s guidelines regarding confidential information
involving other students, families and faculty.

They state it twice!

Section 2.5:

Quote
• All students are expected to actively participate in and benefit from group sessions.

Group sessions?  is that kind of like group therapy, but not calling it that to get around licensing requirements?

Quote
• Students should make group requests regularly demonstrating an interest in the lives
and work of their fellow students as well as a means of taking responsibility for the
community as a whole.

This deserves a translation.  Group requests were called Rap requests at Benchamrk, and I imagine the same at CEDU.  You were expected to write what you wanted to talk about (somebody's problem, confront somebody, etc), and staff would select your requests from the stack of lists.

Quote
Student communication should be supportive, positive and reflect constructive
criticism. Caustic, sarcastic, insulting, demeaning, threatening, abusive comments or
behavior are not acceptable methods of expression.

That may be true, but i'm sure "brutal honesty" is permitted, which is often indistinguishable from the above to the target.

Absolute confidentiality for kids (they can't talk about stuff), but staff can tell the parents anything about what happens in group... nice policy. I'm sure it makes the kids real open knowing everything they say can be reported back to their parents...

Quote
Advisors may share what occurred in group with their colleagues, as well as with
parents, as deemed necessary and appropriate.

Section 2.9:

Quote
Movies and music that are not compatible with the general standards of the School (i.e.
those that are excessively discordant due to content that is overtly sexual, violent, drug-
oriented, anarchist, depressive, etc.) are considered unacceptable forms of
entertainment.    
• The School will provide all media (including movies, music, and reference and utility
media), and only such media provided by the School may be possessed or used on school property.

...

Due to the unpredictability of content played, radio is an unacceptable form of media.

...

• All music that is to be played for a Last Light must be approved by the student’s
Advisor prior to asking permission from the Floor Coordinator.

Political content, sad music...  all off limits.  I see.  Only group approved information.  

Section 2.19
Quote
• Students will be allowed to call their parents at predetermined times with faculty
supervision and support.

No surprise there.

Section 2.21

Quote
• Students may not be exposed to any of the elements that influenced his/her
enrollment to Carlbrook School (clothing, music, jewelry, make-up, smoking,
etc.).

I see.  That's something to reflect on.  So basically anything having to do with an identity prior to carlbrook is "bad". And yet thy simultaneously say they're tryin to teach kids to be independent thinking and so forth.

more from 2.21:

Quote
• Students may not have contact with old friends from home at any point during
the visit (no phone calls, letters from old girlfriends/ boyfriends, pictures, etc.).
• Students may not call/contact any current or former Carlbrook students during
the visit.
• Parents have the right to end the visit at any point if they feel their student is
being disrespectful or dishonest.
• Students must be with a family member at all times except for short breaks.
• Students must stay on campus (see first and second on-campus visit standards
for specifics).
• No clothing, food or gifts (personal hygiene products, music/ movies, etc.) may
be given to students during the visit.  Clothing requests must be discussed with
the student’s Advisor, and if approved should be mailed directly to the School.  
Items given to students during the visit will be sent home.  
• The use of personal electronic devices is prohibited during visits (“personal
electronic devices” from here on refers to mobile phones, all forms of music
players, handheld and stationary gaming systems and any new technology not
mentioned that involves music, movies, games, photos etc.).
• Students must have an adult family member present when listening to music or
watching a movie.  

And those are the rules for *on campus* visits.

2.21e:

Quote
First visit only: Students will go through their room or personal space with their
parent(s) before they go to bed the first night.  They must discard items that
represent their old lifestyle.  They must choose one item that is the most difficult
to discard and send it directly to the School (labeled with their name and their
Advisor’s name) to the attention of Sandi Hughes in the Advising Department.

also

Quote
• Students will conduct themselves in a manner that is representative of their
Truth at all times.
(italics in original)

Of course this only makes sense once someobody goes through Truth.  Castle can explain more about this.

I'll go through more in a bit.  Very interesting reading.
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Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2603 on: March 26, 2009, 07:29:23 PM »
Quote
8.1c Bans
The student may be asked not to communicate verbally or non-verbally with
specific students (e.g. the student is on bans with these individuals).  Unlike the loss
of privileges and extra crews, the purpose of bans is NOT to punish the student.  
Rather, bans are used to encourage the student to spend time with individuals who
are more likely to challenge self-defeating thoughts and actions and reinforce
positive behaviors.  In addition to violations of Carlbrook Standards, bans are also
used in certain circumstances when the Advisors feel that a student is spending
excessive time with peers who reinforce their negative thinking, or excessive time
with students of the opposite sex.

There it is...  Check out section 8 for their "consequences".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline try another castle

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2604 on: March 26, 2009, 07:33:34 PM »
Quote
Students will conduct themselves in a manner that is representative of their
Truth at all times.

Oh, that's rich.

How is this measurable?

My "truth" changes day to day. Today, my truth consists of the fact that "My friend BIll left half of his bottle of tequila over at my house, which means.. woo hoo, party before 4pm."
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Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2605 on: March 26, 2009, 07:35:52 PM »
Now this is shocking that they put it in writing

Quote
8.1f Re-audit of Wilderness Experience
Severe infractions of Carlbrook Standards, particularly those that endanger the
safety of the student or the School, will not be tolerated.  The following behaviors
will result in either a required re-audit of a wilderness experience
or expulsion:
• Injury to self or threat of injury to self
• Injury to others or threat of injury to other
• Leaving the Carlbrook campus without permission
• Refusal to participate in the Carlbrook program
• Refusal to adhere to Carlbrook Standards
• Refusal of consequences for violations of Carlbrook Standards
 
Once the decision for wilderness re-audit has been made by the Board of Regents,
students MUST be transported to a suitable facility by a licensed adolescent escort
service or picked up by the parents immediately.  The Dean of Advising will contact
the student’s educational consultant, and they will work together to help parents
locate a suitable wilderness program for the student.  Parents are responsible for all
Carlbrook tuition during the time which the student is re-auditing a wilderness
program.  If the Board of Regents decides that Carlbrook is not the appropriate
place for the student, parents will be notified immediately, and we will assist the
educational consultant in finding another program which better suits the student’s
needs.

So great.  You take a suicidal kid and send him/her to wilderness.  What could possibly go wrong (and there are many more instances of that happening).  PS: Alldredge opened the next day under a new name (though they retained the old on their marketing).

This is where the fluffy program shows it's true colors.  Either you conform to the group, or you go to wilderness re-education (not a pleasant experience).  Hovering over kid's heads at all times is this threat.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2606 on: March 26, 2009, 07:38:45 PM »
At the very least, you must admit that the mere existence and availability of the handbook is a good thing.
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Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2607 on: March 26, 2009, 07:43:11 PM »
Quote from: "JD"
At the very least, you must admit that the mere existence and availability of the handbook is a good thing.
Well.  The exist for all programs that I've seen.  The difficulty is getting one out into the public sphere and taking a look.  It's usually very difficult to get a look at the parent handbook prior to enrollement (trust us...  we try).

A friend of mine (parent) calls the marketing folk for various  programs up all the time to see what he/she can get.  The most they usually ever give out is an enrollment contract.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline psy

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2608 on: March 26, 2009, 07:50:21 PM »
Quote from: "JD"
At the very least, you must admit that the mere existence and availability of the handbook is a good thing.
Frankly, I was very depressed after skimming it over.  It does seem very much like the design of the program is to change kids without their full knowledge and consent.  While the changes usually wear off after they leave the controlled enviornment (and have no threat of being sent back), the effects often last a lifetime.

If you create an enclosed system where you control all the communication, who people can talk to, etc etc, you control the commerce of ideas, and through that, what and how people can think (they almost hint at this as a good thing in their description of bans).  Who gets to define "negative"?  There goes your freedom...  The sanctity of free thought is something that nobody should be able to take away at any age for any reason.

It's just very sad to look at, is all, because I've felt the effects of thought reform first hand.  I'm probably going to head to bed now and take a further look at it in the morning.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline dishdutyfugitive

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Re: Carlbrook
« Reply #2609 on: March 26, 2009, 10:05:57 PM »
Back from a 6 day camping trip at IKEA.

I have this to come back to ?

I don't know what's worse.

A 1989 CEDU parent singing the praises

or

A 2009 CB parent singing the praises

seems to me history will, as it has for eons, repeat itself ad infinitum.

PSY - Excellent point regarding  'upper school' lgat workshop 'informed consent' .

It should be mandatory.

for fuck's sake - let's start at the beginning.

your first rap, seeing that it is "therapy", should require uncoerced, fully informed, written patient consent. Regulated by the appropriate Medical board.

Who provides, monitors and manages this oversight?

Apparently this responsibility falls not on the owners, board members, presidents, directors, headmasters, family heads, educational consultants or parents.

Apparently the duty of monitoring the complete lack of oversight falls on the fornitia.
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