Author Topic: Typical Day at Sagewalk  (Read 76071 times)

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #495 on: August 27, 2005, 05:04:00 PM »
What? No URLs, troll?
A user name, perhaps?
Even a thread I participated in?
Yeh, blather.
BTW, I wasn't offically 'banned', it was more covert... Error message: This username is not registered.
In hindsight, might have been an actual error.
Either way, wasn't worth my time to re-register.
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Offline Shortbus

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« Reply #496 on: August 27, 2005, 05:12:00 PM »
Like I said before - just throwing out the white flag and asking for a little help... whatever happened burned you pretty bad. But youre just another person on a bulletin board, I dont have a pressing desire to understand if you have no intention of meeting me halfway, or at the very least taking a couple steps in my direction.[ This Message was edited by: Shortbus on 2005-08-27 15:04 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #497 on: December 03, 2005, 07:02:00 PM »
I think there was a bit of sarcasm here.  It strikes me that some of the posters, even those who worked at RTC's show poor language abilities and a lack of reading comprehension.  

And the fact is, parents...good parents, DO talk to their kids.  They do ask why!  They are patient and kind, they are strong and they set boundaries.  But some kids have underlying biological factors that make them rebel.  Or their personality doesn't fit with their school environment.  OR they suffer abuse at the hands of trusted school officials.  It is a complex matter.  

One more thing, do ANY of you who are throwing out the term "bad parents" have children of your own???  any??  Because being a "good" parent is not so straightforward as you suggest.  

Anyone who is not parenting a teen should NOT be offering advice to parents who are.  THAT is simple.  So get a grip yourself.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #498 on: December 03, 2005, 07:24:00 PM »
You respond as if this thread isn't 4 months old.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #499 on: December 03, 2005, 09:40:00 PM »
It may be 4 months old but it is still applicable to the general opinions on here and people are obviously still reading it!   Why is everyone so easily inflamed and moved to attack?  

And now, a question that is not 4 months old.  And a question I am asking everyone.  If not RTC's then what is YOUR solution?  It is very easy to be a critic but much more difficult to actually solve problems.  So thank you all very much for letting the world know that there are abuses at RTC's.  Now let's figure out what parents can and should do when they are worried about their child.  

That's my goal.
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Offline AtomicAnt

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« Reply #500 on: December 04, 2005, 01:12:00 AM »
Quote

Anyone who is not parenting a teen should NOT be offering advice to parents who are.  THAT is simple.  So get a grip yourself.



"


I disagree. Some here may not be parents of teens, but they were teens themselves. Some were 'troubled teens.' This gives them the experience and benefit of hindsight as to what worked (or may have worked) for them.

Further, being a parent of a teen does not automatically make one a good parent or an expert on adolescent psychology.

If we see another human being being treated in an inhumane way, it does not matter what expertise or experience we have.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #501 on: December 04, 2005, 02:23:00 AM »
Ok, so like I said, if you have some advice other than what NOT to do, I am all ears!  I would love to hear from teens about what WOULD work because so far what I have read on here is what I already know.  

I don't support inhumane treatment either.  But frankly, right now, my son is treating ME in an inhumane way.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #502 on: December 04, 2005, 02:35:00 AM »
I know this post is very old.  I am new to the site and a parent of a struggling teen.  I am in process of having every test known to man done on him.  He went from an extremely sensitive and caring young man to a violently angry and depressed one.  I am thankful that you see that the program may not have helped but that your parents were trying, desperately to do something to help you.  I'm sorry that you were misdiagnosed.  It is my biggest fear in trying to decide what to do with my son.  That we are missing the magic key.  For all the rest of the post-teens who don't see the logic of these programs...well, someday you may have a teen who is slipping away from you and you will understand that as a parent you will do anything, ANYTHING to save them.  How could you not?
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #503 on: December 04, 2005, 08:57:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-12-03 18:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"It may be 4 months old but it is still applicable to the general opinions on here and people are obviously still reading it!   Why is everyone so easily inflamed and moved to attack?  



And now, a question that is not 4 months old.  And a question I am asking everyone.  If not RTC's then what is YOUR solution?  It is very easy to be a critic but much more difficult to actually solve problems.  So thank you all very much for letting the world know that there are abuses at RTC's.  Now let's figure out what parents can and should do when they are worried about their child.  



That's my goal.  "
Hello, parent.  There are many on this board who can tell you "what not to do," as "it" has been done to them and either didn't help or actually hurt them.  There are a few folks on this board who can tell you some real action steps toward finding the root of your child's ongoing difficulties.

I personally worked at two of these RTC's early on in my career as a therapist.  I can tell you for a fact that I would never recommend this type of "treatment" for ANY kid at ANY time.  I can speak factually about what I've heard and seen, and can extrapolate fairly accurately about other programs, as they are almost all built on the same "platform," if you will.

There are very specific criteria that need to be met at a certain threshold in order for any professional to recommend residential placement for an adolescent.  You should take your child to a psychologist who specializes in assessing adolescents.  DO NOT take your child to a psychiatrist who relies heavily on medication for treatment.  DO NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, rely on an "educational consultant" for ANY PART OF ASSESSMENT.  Remember, you are first looking for an ASSESSMENT, and when you have an accurate picture of your child's "issues" you will begin to make a focused, informed decision on a TREATMENT plan.  No reputable care-giver would recommend residential treatment except in the most extreme cases (kid is actively suicidal or homicidal), and then inpatient treatment would only be for up to several weeks to stabilize the kid at which point he or she would enter outpatient treatment in your community.

OK, moving right along...  Behavior Modification "schools," "RTC's," "programs," or whatever they like to call themselves, DO NOT WORK.  There have been many difinitive studies, including one by the NIH that have lead the Surgeon General of the United States to release findings stating that RTC's generally don't help, often harm, and are responsible for an INCREASE in juvenile delinquency caused by "warehousing" delinquents without proper psychological care or supervision, where the "less problematic" residents learn even more maladaptive behavior from some of the more severely delinquent kids and often become victims of crimes within the facilities.

I can support the above statements through direct experience.  The RTC industry is solely geared toward MAKING A PROFIT.  They make most of that profit by taking advantage of desperate parents at their weakest moments, telling the parent over and over that their child will be "dead, insane or in jail" without immediate intervention by THEIR PARTICULAR program.  Many facilities are owned by the same people or parent corporations.  Many have been sued out of business or closed due to abuse, but they are such high profit businesses that the same people who just had to close over millions of dollars lost in lawsuits or the jailing of their staff members open up under a new name in a new state where they begin the same cycle once again.

RTC's are one of the biggest money-making SCAMS in the treatment industry, often billing themselves as "schools" to parents and "treatment centers" to insurance companies.  

They rarely operate within the letter of the law and almost never within the spirit of the law.  They are for the most part, unregulated and unlicensed and employ uneducated "guards" with no credentials to implememt their "programs" largely consisting of extreme punishments, both mental and physical, and some form of Large Group Awareness Training, used to make the subject fully dependent on the "program" for what they will be made to believe is their ultimate survival.  The same bullshit is shoveled down the throats of the parents who are cautioned not to believe "anything negative" their child says about the program, no matter how disturbing the charge.  Communications are always censored (in violation of Constitutional Law).  Some inmates are not even allowed to speak at all for several months and any and all communication with parents (if allowed at all) is directly monitored by staff to insure the child cannot "manipulate" the parent into taking them home.

Completion of the "program" is arbitrary.  It isn't based on any test, assessment, timetable or measurable goals.  Children can be held indefinitely as long as the parents continue to pay the $5000.00/mo (and up) fees (I've seen up to FOUR YEARS then "POST-GRAD").  When parents run out of money, the children are immediately discharged, which, if there were a valid psychological reason for their placement, would be illegal and unethical.  It's all about the money.

As far as education is concerned, nearly every single RTC is unaccredited or is "conditionally accredited" as an "alternative school" which means, quite simply, the education is worth dick.  If there even are classes, they're taught by unlicensed, unaccredited teachers or are computer-based "self study," both of which yeild no legal diploma nor transferrable credits.  Your kid will be further behind then before he went to the special "school."  An example of this is one of the "flagship" programs, the Academy at Ivy Ridge in NY which was recently successfully sued by the State Atorney General and found by a judge to be "grossly misrepresenting their credentials" to consumers.  They were issuing "diplomas" they said were valid and legal in NY, but in reality, they were not accredited by ANY agency whatsoever and the so-called diplomas were worth nothing.  "Graduates" were barred from college entrance and had to either take the GED or repeat two years of high school.  AIR was fined nearly $250,000.00 and ordered to repay tuition to dozens of "graduates" totaling over $1,000,000.00.  Some "school."

In any case, parent, whatever you do, remember it is your CHILD'S WELFARE that comes first, even over the quality of your own life for the time being.  Work with your kid and a good therapist.  Be a loving parent and respect your child.  Being a teenager is not a "disorder" that can be miraculously "cured" by some pseudo-therapeutic hack strangers with glossy brochures.  Read up, ask questions and MOST OF ALL remember this is YOUR LOVING CHILD, YOUR BABY.

Good luck.  Feel free to drop me a PM if you need more specific information.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #504 on: December 04, 2005, 06:54:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-12-03 23:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I know this post is very old.  I am new to the site and a parent of a struggling teen.  I am in process of having every test known to man done on him.  He went from an extremely sensitive and caring young man to a violently angry and depressed one.  I am thankful that you see that the program may not have helped but that your parents were trying, desperately to do something to help you.  I'm sorry that you were misdiagnosed.  It is my biggest fear in trying to decide what to do with my son.  That we are missing the magic key.  For all the rest of the post-teens who don't see the logic of these programs...well, someday you may have a teen who is slipping away from you and you will understand that as a parent you will do anything, ANYTHING to save them.  How could you not?"


Do you have any idea what caused this change? Are you on speaking terms?

I will not attempt to offer specific advice without knowing the specific situation. People, even 'troubled teens' are all different and what works for some does not work for others. Also, there are differences as to how far one parent may want to go. You say parents will do anything to save their children. I don't think so. I know many teens (my own sister at 15) who get kicked out of their homes. My father had limits as to both what he would do and what he would put up with.

With me it was a bit easier. I refused to obey rules and took the stand that no one had a 'right' to make me do anything. My father's response was simple. If you wish to have the freedoms of an adult, you will get the responsiblity, too. That meant he would drop all parent/child rules, but I had to be an adult member of the family and assist in all household maintenance; cooking, cleaning, repairs, lawn care, shopping, etc. If I did not behave like an adult, the response was simple. They cut me off financially, stopped cooking for me, stopped laundry services, no car access, etc. In other words, I would get the priviledges that a family member would get. They held the economic strings.

The end result was mixed. I still stayed out until the wee hours of the morning. I still got into some trouble. I still had the wrong friends. I was also more polite and helpful to my parents. We reached an uneasy truce. If I wanted my allowance and to be included in the family (meals, shopping, laundry, etc) then I had to act like a member of the family. I had to act like an adult and not an ass. My parents had to give up on curfews, bedtimes, picking my friends, and other rules that apply to 'kids.'

I also had the advantage that no matter how outrageous my positions were, my father would discuss them without being critical or belittling. We had some great discussions (arguements?) about free speech, anarchy, atheism, the basis for moral values, the boundries between individual choice and the need for order in society. He gave me some great books. My parents were lucky that I was an intellectual of sorts and could be reached this way. As they treated me more like an adult, I began to act like one, too. Maybe your son cannot be reached this way.

Some of the most helpful moments in parenting for me were those times after I did something stupid, my father, instead of punishment, would knock politely on the door to my room, ask if he could come in and talk, and sat with me to calmly discuss these things. He was not reactionary, judgemental, or angry, but he made great sense to me and I felt closer to him and more trusting when he finished. He made it clear that he cared.

I'm not saying this will work for you. I was never addicted to drugs or alcholol. I never committed a serious crime. I never dropped out of school and was not failing (except eighth grade). I was never apprehended, but the police drove me home a few times after taking down my personal information. That was kind of scary in itself.

Speaking of which, maybe if you present your son with literature from Wilderness programs and point out that this is where things are going, the threat would force him to negotiate. Make it clear he is allowed to grow up, but you are still very much in charge.

Oh, one last thing. There is no magic key. It takes time, committment, and effort.
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Offline Anotherscaredmom

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« Reply #505 on: December 04, 2005, 07:14:00 PM »
Incredible!  Thank you so much.   That is only the second positive response I have seen on this website.  

My son is very much an intellectual and I do try to reach him that way.  But, he is also getting into much more trouble than it sounds like you were.   And when he's not in school, our relationship is great.  I took him out and homeschooled him for a year and he completely opened up again.  But he wanted to return to school so i gave him that chance.  As soon as he gets in that environment, he starts acting up.  First at school, and then at home.  When the school calls and says he is the angriest kid they've ever seen, what's he like at home?  I say, he's not that way with me, until I start getting pressure from the school and sometimes police to
"straighten him out".  

I have worked with the school extensively to get them to understand what works for him and they have in fact adopted some of it.  But my biggest concern is that he seems completely unwilling to take any responsibility for his angry reactions or not doing any of his work.  The rest of us are twisting ourselves into pretzels around him trying to make things work and he just isn't responding.  

Once summer comes, (when some kids get into more trouble), he settles right down.  He comes home on curfew, he helps around the house if I ask him to, and he laughs and joins in family things.  

So, basically he has to learn how to own his own behavior.  That's number one.  And then he has to take responsibility for doing his job, and right now that is passing school.  I have sat him down multiple times and patiently explained and listened and offered him various options for school.  We have school choice so he could go to a smaller school, he could go to a private school, and I'm still willing to homeschool him if he wants to do that.  Yet he insists he wants to stay in the school he's in, that he will just cause a ruckus if I send him somewhere else, and then we come up with an agreement and he breaks it every time.    

On top of that, he's become a master of lying and manipulation.  I didn't want to believe it because we had always been so close, but he will look me right in the eyes and lie to me with earnestness and sincerity.  

I also know he is using drugs.  As far as I know, nothing major.  Just pot.  But where is he getting the money for it?  He doesn't have a job, won't take jobs I offer him, and I don't give him an allowance if he doesn't contribute something to the household, and he rarely does, and only if he wants money.  That is about once every few months.  His sister and I have both had money disappear from our wallets and our rooms.

To me, these seem to be drastic things.  I was a rebellious teenager but there were lines I just didn't cross.  

Anyway, there is so much more to the story, but mostly I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story.  By the way, what did you think of your Dad kicking out your sister?  See, I guess I would "place him" before I would want to throw him out.  That seems so scary to me.

Take care!
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #506 on: April 17, 2006, 01:51:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-08-02 11:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-08-02 11:13:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Are you trying to say that Carlbrook and Swift River are bad, abusive programs? Yes, Carlbrook requires wilderness prior to enrollment. It does not have to be SUWS.  Hidden Lake has its own captive wilderness program.  These schools have strong academics, excellent therapists and are well-run and safe. Are there imperfections with the programs?  Sure.  Show me a school- any kind of school- that is perfect.  


The young man who left Carlbrook at 18 (in your link) is but one voice. Do you really think he is representative?  


I am not going to go into the licensing debate. There are many reasons why a business of ANY kind chooses to resist licensing requirements. I have been involved in these kind of disputes in totally unrelated industries.  It does not mean that they have something to hide or want to run an abusive organization. "




You seem to parse words similar to the way a lawyer might. Are you a lawyer by chance?"


Yes, an unemployed one with plenty of time to troll many threads here.  Lack of knowledge about any of these programs won't stop her - she just lies and says she has "personal experience."

Oh, Karen.  For shame.
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