Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Brat Camp
Hear hear
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-21 11:32:00, Antigen wrote:
Forcing a kid into wilderness death marches and intimacy w/ strangers is beyond bad parenting! Isn't it obvious? If I foced my own kids to hike 10 miles uphill in a blizzard, I'd rightly lose custody and likely land up in prison for it.
--- End quote ---
No you wouldn't. I think you're being a little dramatic. A 10 mile hike is nothing for kids. They've got more damn energy that they know what to do with. I know! I remember HAVING that energy and now wonder where the heck its gone!
Intimacy w/ strangers? Intimacy w/ strangers? What exactly are you talking about here? Do you mean to tell me that if a kid opens up to a social worker or a trained therapist... that is bad parenting? Are you friggin' high?
Kids nowadays are 'professionals' at hiding all their feelings and their motives for what they do from their OWN parents, let alone strangers. It is a well known fact, even, that most people are more willing to open up to someone they don't know than to someone they do know.
Kids that partake of destructive behaviour do-not open their hearts to their families. They make a point of NOT opening their hearts.
And as far as that "blizzard" is concerned. That was no blizzard. Snow fell, okay. But that doesn't equate to a blizzard. What they went through was childs play compared to what a blizzard could have been.
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-21 12:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
What's a disgrace is you thinking that these little devils are something they're not, angels.
--- End quote ---
You don't even know these kids. If they were really the self centered, dangerous animals the producers make them out to be, then Niles is right. At least one of them would have picked up a heavy rock and put those pathetic wannabe hippies out of their missery already.
The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.
--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958
--- End quote ---
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-21 12:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
ntimacy w/ strangers? Intimacy w/ strangers? What exactly are you talking about here?
--- End quote ---
No, I'm talking about kids being intentionally stressed and then brow beat into divulging intimate details to a group of strangers; in this case, including a fucking camera crew! How did you come to find out that the girl named Lexi had been molested?
That was SO wrong. And the boy shown breaking down and crying ON NATIONAL TV! Fuck! Have you no heart? Can't you put yourself in these kids' shoes? Or do you view them as something less than fully human? Never mind. Evidently you do.
And, btw, I have taken my kids on a ten mile hike before. Just us and the dog. The weather was fine, we had plenty of water and food and we stopped to rest or play in the crick as often as we wanted. There was no blizzard. I never made them carry 1/3 of their weight on their backs. And, most importantly, the bit that you seem to find entirely incomprehensible they went voluntarily!. Prior to our hike, they had not been kept out on a forced camping/hiking expedition and fed nothing but bland oats and beans for weeks. We had a good breakfast beforehand and a good long night's sleep afterwards, inside, in our beds, safe and sound.
If you can't see the difference, you're fucking delusional or retarded. But I suspect it's something subtlely different. I suspect you're making a tidy living off the industry. Corn pone opinions.
The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization.
--Sigmund Freud
--- End quote ---
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-21 12:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2005-07-21 11:32:00, Antigen wrote:
Forcing a kid into wilderness death marches and intimacy w/ strangers is beyond bad parenting! Isn't it obvious? If I foced my own kids to hike 10 miles uphill in a blizzard, I'd rightly lose custody and likely land up in prison for it.
--- End quote ---
No you wouldn't. I think you're being a little dramatic. A 10 mile hike is nothing for kids. They've got more damn energy that they know what to do with. I know! I remember HAVING that energy and now wonder where the heck its gone!
Intimacy w/ strangers? Intimacy w/ strangers? What exactly are you talking about here? Do you mean to tell me that if a kid opens up to a social worker or a trained therapist... that is bad parenting? Are you friggin' high?
Kids nowadays are 'professionals' at hiding all their feelings and their motives for what they do from their OWN parents, let alone strangers. It is a well known fact, even, that most people are more willing to open up to someone they don't know than to someone they do know.
Kids that partake of destructive behaviour do-not open their hearts to their families. They make a point of NOT opening their hearts.
And as far as that "blizzard" is concerned. That was no blizzard. Snow fell, okay. But that doesn't equate to a blizzard. What they went through was childs play compared to what a blizzard could have been. "
--- End quote ---
Hey Anon- what exactly gets you so worked up over this? It is obviously it is you who continually is posting in favor of BRAT CAMP, it shows in your writing style.
Reality TV never reflects real life, ever. LOL. Do you actually believe that it does?
Most of all, I am very curious why you are so intensely defenseful of these programs. What bothers you so much that a lot of people at fornits believe these programs to be bad. You claim 'we' have no room for middle-ground, well take a look at yourself. Your comments are insane. The molestation comment was over the top. Seems you are in a bad mood again. Are you bipolar by chance? Any medications? Perhaps you missed a dose?
Anonymous:
The thing about antigen is that even when I think I can find common ground with her---she'll inevitably throw in something really idiotic...and that invariably reminds me that if I'm agreeing with her--I had better double check my thinking cuz she's so often a complete fruit loop.
Here I was...thinking we were on the same page in terms of disapproving of Bratcamp which--bottom line---uses these kids for entertainment.
I say without reservation I believe that many wilderness programs do a lot of good---for the right kind of kid---but I think it's just wrong to have these kids doing their emotional work in front of a camera for the world to see---doesn't it occur to any of these parents that the media culture, living in the eyes of others, is at least a part of their kids' angst?
But antigen can't leave it at that---pretty soon she's saying ( afew posts back) that a 10 mile hike in the snow is child abuse and she'd lose her kids to Child Protection if she took them on a hike like that---absolutely foolish hysteria--and on and on ---just like she is about wilderness and therapeutic programs in general.
She just can't leave out the hyperbole and talk rationally about the real situation---which is much more complex than lazy parents, money grubbing camp owners and shamefully misunderstood kids who really have done nothing harmful or wrong.
The woman is an obsessed lunatic, she cares nothing about children or parents, maybe not even her own family for all I know. The driving force in her life seems to be to tear down therapeutic programs---whether or not she knows anything about them---and to bash people who attended or sent kids to said programs and went on to lead happy productive lives.
This she just cannot either process or tolerate: her black and white thinking about these programs simply cannot allow her to consider subtleties such as differences among kids or differences among programs which, to a more astute observer, might easily explain the different opinions held on this matter.
A completely hopeless woman----absolutely hopeless
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