Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
If they only knew....
Antigen:
Oh, one more thing. "There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds."--Alfred Lord Tennyson
There is not a "fragment" in all nature, for every relative fragment of one thing is a full harmonious unit in itself.
-- John Muir
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Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-07-11 17:48:00, Antigen wrote:
"Phoenix, if you have the courage, you should read up on Jim Jones; how he got his start (promising to cure junkies through the grace of God), running afowl of domestic law and local sensibilities, taking his flock to So. America and, eventually, saving them from a dreaded life w/o his leadership by convincing them all to kill themselves and their children. It's a really fascinating story.
BTW, why, exactly, does the troubled parent industry have so many facilites outside the country?
so long as the priest, that professional negator, slanderer and poisoner of life, is regarded as a superior type of human being, there cannot be any answer to the question: What is truth?
--Freidrich Nietzsche, German philosopher
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"
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I know the story. I still don't see the connection. WWASPS programs don't have a single leader. I've never met the owner of WWASPS. I know several of the staff at a couple of the schools.The owner has no control over any of the students or parents. He's not the reason parents admit their kids, go to seminars, see it through to the end (or the beginning if you will) I don't see any of the seminar facilitators with that kind of power in any way.
So, what's the connection between an organization of many people and Jim Jones? What I hear you trying to say is that after all the years they've been helping families (each school) that all of a sudden they are going to commit mass suicide?
If that isn't what you're staying, what is it?
PHX
BuzzKill:
The dam seminars - OK - if they are all to the good of those who are able to 'step outside their box' - let me ask you - why is it that the persons in attendance are allowed so little time to eat or sleep or get alone for even a few minutes and think? Why are married couples seperated for certain "exercises"? Why must people be berated and humiliated?
If its not a cult - then why are men and women told to divorce unsupportive spouses - unsupportive of the program, mind you. Why are people encouraged to cut off contact with family members who ask "unsupportive" questions about the program?
I think I know - but I would like to know what you think PX
BuzzKill:
The suicide the program demands is the destruction of your independence of thought and personal convictions.
Its why you all sound just the same.
They don't need Jim Jones or anyone like him when they have you flocking like sheep to the seminars.
Anonymous:
Who gives a shit what a parents seminar is like or what their new 'retail' public version is like. The fact remains, when youre a kid in a program you are forced to attend the seminars. If you've never been to one, you have no idea what goes on. If you don't publically 'admit' to something or humiliate yourself in some way you are rejected. If you don't double cross a friend to show your with the group you are sent to isolation until the seminar ends. (as long as 3 days!)
Your arguments PHX about seminars show your ignorance. Fornits 'group think'?!? Are you fucking kidding?! Have you been to a WWASP seminar? If you have you would know what REAL group think looks like. A bunch of crazy parents, upper level kids and one overblown personality known as the facilitator. They are the leader. They decide who stays and who goes, and the only people who make succesful facilitators are manipulative, overbearing, intimidating personalities. A facilitator who knows nothing about you, who is handed a 3x5 card with certain 'facts' written about you, secrets you wrote in your journal that have been conveniently given to the facilitator in front of hundreds of people to encourage your participation. To encourage.. your breaking.
I don't think being made to stand in a huge group of people and shamed for TELLING THE TRUTH is helpful. Being thrown into isolation for honestly admitting you don't know why you are at the facility isn't treatment. It's coercion. Nothing more, nothing less. You either admit that we are right and you or wrong, or you never go home. Plus a few days in iso to think about it.
There is no argument here. None at all.
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