THE SCAM BEHIND REDCLIFF

[Anonymous]

From the ABC Family Brat Camp Forum on RedCliff Ascent:

Quiet_Tide

THE SCAM BEHIND REDCLIFF

Posted: Jan 29, 2005 11:13 AM reply

2 Posts
Registered: Jan 20, 2005 02:13 PM

I am a Red Cliff Ascent graduate. This is a program created by money hungry individuals who are willing to jeopardize your child?s future in the name of cash. Affiliated programs such as Discovery Academy in Utah are recommended to nearly all of the students in Red Cliff Ascent, no matter what the reason they were sent there, or how well they did during their stay. Now, they have signed with television companies around the world in an attempt to boost their profits even more through this publicity stunt. If you could charge desperate families $15,000 a month for their children to go hiking, pay staff members low wages, use no money gained from the program for facilities accept for the base, recommend a lockdown boarding school that you own to 95% of the students in your program, and then make enormous profits off of your own reality TV show, wouldn?t you do it too?

-Quiet Tide, 62 days

VickiSue02

Re: Re: THE SCAM BEHIND REDCLIFF

Posted: Feb 01, 2005 09:08 AM reply

6 Posts
Registered: Feb 01, 2005 08:52 AM

I am a worried parent contemplating admitting my 13 year old daughter into RCA. My ex-husband feels like you do, saying that it is a scam, but he doesn't live with my daughter and he doesn't understand how life is with her. She needs help and this seems to be the only alternative. Can you tell me if you benefitted at all from the program and how old you are/were when you went? My daughter is not a drug abuser but she is just starting to do all of the things that she "shouldn't". i just don't want to wait until it's too late to do something about it. I've already applied for a loan to send her and have "tentatively" arranged for an escort to pick her up this weekend. I'm scared and I don't know if she needs to go........ Can you give me your insight please? Thank you

4calif_roses

Re: Re: THE SCAM BEHIND REDCLIFF

Posted: Feb 01, 2005 09:49 AM reply

58 Posts
Registered: Jan 01, 2005 05:56 PM

It is unfortunate that Quiet Tide seems to have had a misguided adventure. But for every student that "says" they had a "bad" experience at RCA, there are hundreds who have had a GREAT experience. It is a difficult journey for these students and they all have a myriad of reasons for being placed there. My daughter "graduated" the program at RCA after 73 days and says that even though it was one of the hardest things she has ever done, it was also one of the best experiences of her life. Other students that she met there went on to boarding school as she did and she met other kids who also went through the RCA program there. She said they too were happy they had gone through the RCA program, and it helped them to get their life back on track.

I would only say that at age 13, (not knowing your circumstances), you have checked out all other possible programs and know that this will be the best fit for your situation. Our daughter was 16 and turned 17 while at RCA. She is back home now, doing very well, having a "normal" Senior Year in High School.

If you want to talk to me directly, call RCA and ask for Barbara D in admissions and she will give you my cell phone number. Give her my posting name. My daughter was in the last episode of Brat Camp, if you watched last night. She is Jessica.

My thoughts are with you.

Erin

VickiSue02

Re: Re: THE SCAM BEHIND REDCLIFF

Posted: Feb 01, 2005 11:43 AM reply

6 Posts
Registered: Feb 01, 2005 08:52 AM

Hi Erin, I just got a voice mail from Barbara asking me to give you a call then I saw your posting on here. Thanks for your help. I will try to give you a call later at the number Barbara gave me.

The reason I was asking this person if they benefitted from the program at all and how old they were, was to determine whether or not this is the right place for my duaghter. Like I said, she is only 13, not "abusing" drugs and alcohol but is starting to experiment with them, she is failing most of her classes, has runaway a couple of times and has gotten supsended a couple of times for fighting, but I don't know it that constitutes sending her off to a camp in the dead of winter for 2 months with older kids that are drug "abusers', gang members, juvenile delinquents that have actually spent time in "Juvy" and or worse places.

I'm just weighing my options.

I know there is another camp in Utah that is on a working cattle ranch where the kids actually "work" on the ranch wtih the horses etc and seems to be more on her level. That maybe she would respond better to this than "making" her camp in the snow and hike "ALL DAY". But is that more of a vacation than anything else? Am i in a fantasy land about my daughter? That "she's really not that bad"? Then why would I ever contemplate ANY of these places?? I'm really confused.

wiserone

Re: Re: THE SCAM BEHIND REDCLIFF

Posted: Feb 01, 2005 07:56 PM reply

1 Posts
Registered: Feb 01, 2005 06:43 PM

VickiSue02, I have been a Child Protective Services worker for 15 years, and, reading your posts, several things come to mind: the first being that this camp seems to be a last-resort kind of place; not likely to be necessary for a kid who's "really not that bad".

Also, I can tell you that some of the parents I have been least impressed with were the ones who had the attitude of, "Take my kid and fix him, but don't expect me to participate or change in any way".

The saddest kids I've seen--even more than the abused ones--are the kids whose parents make it clear that they don't truly care about their children. I can still hear little 9-year-old Melanie begging me to place her and her brother with their grand-mother because, "Mama loves her boyfriend more than she loves us."

Being a good parent means mostly that the parent has to TRY; not to become perfect--but to at least make it clear that they know that their job is to raise their children to become good, productive citizens of the adult world. This takes time and effort, and a whole lot of energy. But consider the stakes; the outcome is definitely worth it.

I have been in the business long enough to know that the kids who were given way too much leeway through the elementary school years are the ones most likely to start getting into legal trouble as they become adolescents. And the older they get, the more serious trouble they can get into. Why do they do this? For the same reason they misbehaved in earlier years: they want to know they are cared about. They want to know that somebody loves them enough to not let them get themselves in trouble--loves them enough to put up with all the arguing, even yelling, throwing things, etc. Loves them enough to teach them how to behave in a way so that people won't, as my mother uused to put it, hate to see them coming.

This attention-seeking behavior gets much worse when kids hit foster care, poor things. Not so much if they're really young, but as they get moved again and again, 999,999 out of a million are going to come to believe that they aren't worth anybody caring about them. So in each placement, the behavior gets a little worse, in part because deep down they're hoping that THIS time somebody will care about them enough to keep them; but then when their behavior causes them to be moved, they tell themselves, "I knew I wasn't worth it." In other words, they create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Very sad, because in truth most foster parents aren't going to be willing to put up with really bad behavior, though they'd happily keep the kids if the problems were relatively minor. But a lot of kids go into a placement with the feeling, "Everybody thinks I'm bad, so I'll just prove it to them"--all the while hoping that this time, this time..

Ack--didn't mean to get into a ramble. Back to your daughter. Thirteen and 14 are very hard; they don't want to think of themselves as little girls; yet they are far from mature enough for adult responsibilities. (Here I mean in part, actual brain development; remember when they were, say, 3, and believed, perhaps, that they could fly? And that at age 6, they were not ready to learn what income tax is {for example}? Well, in the same way that their brains developed to where they knew they couldn't fly, and to where they can understand what income tax is--the human brain doesn't get fully developed until the later teen years.) This means that most young teenagers still need to have at least some rules forced on them. I am quite concerned about your daughter's running away. Since she has been unwilling/unable to listen to your concerns, perhaps you might need to install locks (including windows) that she cannot open. However, that would require that she never be left at home alone, in case there was a fire or some other emergency, and I know that isn't always possible, particularly for a single working parent. If there isn't anyone reliable to stay with her or whose house she can go to, you can't do this.

I don't know whether you have tried counseling or not, but it can be very helpful--but you'll have to keep in mind that you'll have to change a little bit, too. I noticed on the last episode of Brat Camp that the one boy's mother interrupted him with challenges, despite the fact that he had just explained to her that while he had the talking stick he was the only one allowed to talk. What I would hope most for you to get out of counseling would be to be consistent (this can be an actual disadvantage, when there are two parents--often, one is the strict one and the other undermines this). A child needs to know that, for ex., EVERY time her grades fall she is going to be cut off from friends for a period of time--not just the times when Mom/Dad feels like making sure of this every day, and definitely not telling the child it's going to be a week then caving in after two days. And they will push--oh, they'll push! Yell, maybe; you're the meanest parent that ever lived. BUT--this pushing will gradually reduce to token grumbles, once they've learned that all that pushing isn't going to set them free again.

I would also hope that a counselor could help you learn how to really listen to your child; how to remain calm and not let her "push your buttons"--as often as not, that's all a kid is doing: seeing if she can get enough control to send Mama into a tantrum. And control is what it's all about. YOU, the parent, should definitely be the one in control--but at the same time acknowledging that your child is worthy of consideration; realize that although what she's concerned about may be laughable to you, it is of real importance to her. Once this acknowledgement is made, a lot of the rebellion will go down just from that. A parent who makes a child's entire life "my way, because I'm the parent" is primarily going to teach their child a.) resentment, and b.) that might equals right, to borrow the phrase from the movie.

Ack--rambled again, sorry. I just realized that this last paragraph may have sounded contradictory to what I said about forcing rules on them--sorry again. But a parent's second duty (after loving) is to protect their child; and running away can put a child at risk of unimaginable horrors. If it's a choice of locking the child in with you or have her continue to put herself in this dangerous situation, well... One of the typical things that a counselor does is help disagreeing parties come to a solution that satisfies both; in this case, perhaps you would agree that she could go to whoever's house as long as a.) you met and approved the person, and b.) she tells you when she's going, and comes back as scheduled. Also, if, for example, she says that you just don't like so-and-so, a counselor can help you and your child find ways to communicate and clarify both people's concerns and wishes...calmly.

A new book has just come out: "Promise You Won't Freak Out", co-written by a mother and her teenage daughter. I've not read it yet, but apparently a major reason why teens don't talk to their parents is that they say a sentence or two, then the parent starts "freaking out". Understandably, this is excellent DIScouragement for the teen to try again. Sounds like it would be worth reading.
Good luck to both of you.