Redcliffer

[Anonymous]

We shall see...only time will tell.

For us, for now - Redcliff was the best thing that ever happened to my son -- just ask him -- he'll tell you.

He said he thought that everyone should go there and that it was a great experience.

He was "hard core" because he said he liked it --he liked to hike, he liked the structure, he liked the peer group -- He even liked the food --I am serious he never complained about anything. He was never "broken down" by anyone or anything -- he looked at this as an opportunity to get clean and look at his stuff.  

Maybe that is the difference -- maybe wilderness has its place for a certain type of kid and a certain set of circumstances.

There is no doubt that the majority of these kids come from privledged backgrounds and have most likely been given way too much by busy parents who don't take the time to parent thier kids until it is too late.

I'll give you that!  But for us it was a way to break the cycle of drugs and violence and let him earn his way in a safe place.

No matter how hard the wilderness is it is still far better than the streets.  My son said that he was able to be himself -- he didn't need to worry about being a tough guy to avoid getting beat up.

Another thing my son said was -- he felt as if he had accomplished somthing all on his own for the first time in his life -- you see Mommy (me) was always rescuing him and making things OK for him and seeing to it that he never had to take responsibility for his actions.

At Redcliff he was made to feel proud of himself.  He was made to feel capable and worthy of trust and respect... He became a leader in a positive sense.

Maybe wilderness is being too broadly applied to kids for which this experience turns out to be very bad thing.

I am not stupid or brainwashed as you might suggest.  I am not part of the teen industry either.

I am just a Mom who loves her son and is so proud of him and what he has accomplished.

You will never understand nor do I expect you too.  You hold your beliefs as tightly as I do mine and that is what makes places like this great.

We can be free to disagree without getting nasty with each other -- people who read this can get both sides and come away with far more information than if we all just agreed with one another.

Redcliff Fan

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-20 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

But for us it was a way to break the cycle of drugs and violence and let him earn his way in a safe place.



No matter how hard the wilderness is it is still far better than the streets.  

No, not really.

http://orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html

Tony Haynes, Michelle Sutton, Aaron Bacon, Dawnne Takeuchi, Nicholaus Contreraz, Gina Score, Michael Wiltsie, William "Eddie" Lee....the list goes on and on....See FICA

http://www.ficausa.com/deaths.html

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-12-20 15:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"We shall see...only time will tell.



For us, for now - Redcliff was the best thing that ever happened to my son -- just ask him -- he'll tell you.



He said he thought that everyone should go there and that it was a great experience.



He was "hard core" because he said he liked it --he liked to hike, he liked the structure, he liked the peer group -- He even liked the food --I am serious he never complained about anything. He was never "broken down" by anyone or anything -- he looked at this as an opportunity to get clean and look at his stuff.  



Maybe that is the difference -- maybe wilderness has its place for a certain type of kid and a certain set of circumstances.



There is no doubt that the majority of these kids come from privledged backgrounds and have most likely been given way too much by busy parents who don't take the time to parent thier kids until it is too late.



I'll give you that!  But for us it was a way to break the cycle of drugs and violence and let him earn his way in a safe place.



No matter how hard the wilderness is it is still far better than the streets.  My son said that he was able to be himself -- he didn't need to worry about being a tough guy to avoid getting beat up.



Another thing my son said was -- he felt as if he had accomplished somthing all on his own for the first time in his life -- you see Mommy (me) was always rescuing him and making things OK for him and seeing to it that he never had to take responsibility for his actions.



At Redcliff he was made to feel proud of himself.  He was made to feel capable and worthy of trust and respect... He became a leader in a positive sense.



Maybe wilderness is being too broadly applied to kids for which this experience turns out to be very bad thing.



I am not stupid or brainwashed as you might suggest.  I am not part of the teen industry either.



I am just a Mom who loves her son and is so proud of him and what he has accomplished.



You will never understand nor do I expect you too.  You hold your beliefs as tightly as I do mine and that is what makes places like this great.



We can be free to disagree without getting nasty with each other -- people who read this can get both sides and come away with far more information than if we all just agreed with one another.



Redcliff Fan





"

I have on my hard drive a clip from a program aired on 60 minutes and reported by Mike Wallace. Two kids report to Mike that the program uses painful arm and wrist twisting to force reluctant teens to hike. A therapist takes a kid to a place where he believes he is out of earshot, the crew has a directional microphone and picks up the talking. The kid asks his therapist why counselors are hurting him to force him to hike. The therapist responds with, "Why do you think I want you to be hurt?"

The other boy is a slightly built 13 year old that has been in the wilderness for over 80 days and when Mike asks him why so long, he responds that it is because he is 'hard core' and likes to do things the 'hard way.' Sound familiar? He sounds like he is parroting counselors to me. Mike Wallace points out that this slightly built youngster is subjected to same length hikes with the same gear as all the other students including much bigger, stronger, older boys.

In another part of the expose, they show a reluctant boy about to be strip searched. If you cannot empathize with the look of fear, confusion, and helplessness in this boy's mannerisms and expressions, you simply have no feelings. It is clear he does not want this and clear he realizes he will come out the loser if he protests in any way. The program explains how all the teens are stripped searched and all their belongings taken from them. Since many of these kids arrived by escort who abducted them in the middle of the night, there is no realistic chance they have contraband. This strip search is solely to humiliate the teen and show the teen clearly who is in charge. They use the kids' confiscated clothes as a scent item for the search dogs in case a kid runs away.

A staff member shows Mike a collection of objects that kids have used to assault counselors. He states these serve as reminders to be alert. He shows Mike the map where each kid is located with their group. The markers representing the kids are color and shape coded to show those who are potentially violent or potential suicide risks. Nice safe place, this. This same staff member tells a story of a teen assaulting him with a piece of wood. The teen goes to court and the judge orders the teen to finish the program. Nice. They sent a demonstrably violent person to be with your son.

You say your son liked the structure? I despise the term 'structure' in the context of these camps. When a parent, like me, thinks of structure, we think of the basic routines by which a household runs. We understand that routine, certainty, and consistency make kids feel safe. When these camps use the word 'structure' they are referring to a system of harshly enforced rules concerning petty matters like the morning routine which is timed. In fact, I see these programs using loaded language to reassure parents and soften the description of what they really do. They never explicitly say, "We force the kids to hike. We scream in their faces during confrontational therapy. We force them to disclose personal secrets."

-------
Wilderness therapy can be a good thing. I went to a wilderness program at age 15. I did not realize I was forced into it. I thought I was a volunteer. It was like the one you describe above. It did not have ridiculous rules or confrontational therapy. It was more like an Outward Bound type of program. It pushed my limits and I discovered I could do things I would have otherwise thought impossible. I never thought to rebel against it because I believed I was volunteer.

Funny thing. I am in my forties now and over Thanksgiving I hooked up with some old high school friends. The Wilderness program came up in conversation and one friend said, "We always wondered why you were sent. It seemed like they were sending the trouble makers and you were an honor student on the track team." I told him I volunteered. Another friend interrupted and said, "Actually, we were told not to let you out of the room until you agreed to go. We were glad you liked it, because we were worried if you didn't, you'd come back and kick our asses." Now that I recall that intervention, I remember how they really wanted me to sign the paper then and there. When I told them I would need to ask my parents first, a teacher said, "We will take care of that." At the time, this made sense because my Dad was a teacher at the same high school. I just thought this teacher would see him during the day before I would that night. Now I wonder what role my Dad played in all this. I never asked him.

[Troll Control]

Again, well put.  These places are dangerous and, let's remember, there's no such thing as "wilderness therapy," only wilderness trips.  There is NO THERAPEUTIC VALUE to being in the wilderness.  Therapeutic value comes from THERAPY, not hiking.

Saying "Wilderness Therapy" is like saying "Prison Therapy."  Neither is an actual form of therapy, but have surprisingly similar "success rates" (75% recidivism).  Sending your kid to wilderness is no more therapeutic than sending him to jail.

[Anonymous]

Saying "Wilderness Therapy" is like saying "Prison Therapy." Neither is an actual form of therapy, but have surprisingly similar "success rates" (75% recidivism). Sending your kid to wilderness is no more therapeutic than sending him to jail.

Brilliant!!
Deborah

[Anonymous]

Jail, prison therapy, whatever.... All I know is that my son came back a far better person for the experience.

I am sure there are bad programs out there and kids that should have never been put there...

You for example -- why in the world would your parents send you to a wilderness program when you were obviously functioning so well in many area's of your life... that does sound crazy! ::
Kind of like killing a fly with a sledgehammer.


Some of the stories on the board sound absolutely absurd! First time offenses of shoplifting or kids that backtalk their parents and they get sent to wilderness therapy - that is just wrong.

I think there are very few of us out there that were angels when we were teens.  I did my share of drugs, drank and engaged in some pretty risky behavior -- but I was also able to function well in the other area's of my life - to me that is the difference

I guess I thought that the kids that went there were more like my son.

In fact, the four other boys that graduated with him all had similar backgrounds to his.. one boy had been repeatedly arrested and spent quite a bit of time in jail.  All four were heavy drug users and had been expelled from school for arious reason from violence to selling drugs on campus.

I think if I sent my daughter or son there thinking that this was anything other than the last stop for seriously messed up kids before turning them over to the state or the street then I would be shocked.

My son was well forwarned that if he continued doing what he was doing that we would have no choice but to remove him from our home (he was violent and using drugs in our home, expelled from school,dealing drugs and stealing from family members as well as neighbors to support his habit)

When he wrestled me to the ground in a physical stuggle when I tried to take away his pipe -- that was the last straw.  I no longer felt safe in my own home.

We offered him outpatient rehab, therapy, alternative school, home school and NA (he went to the meetings high -- also a great place to make more drug connections).

We did everything first -- this was a last resort.  I agree with you that it is like prison in many ways.  

But with all of that said -- All I know is that my son called me from boarding school this morning all excited to tell me how much he liked it and that they were having a christmas dance with the girls dorms and that one of the girls had made a big deal of asking him to be her date to the dance.

He loves the art program and actually has developed an interest in something other than drugs for the first time in his life.

He is clean and sober and dealing with his stuff on a daily basis.

They spent Sunday watching Football in the Recroom and working out in the weightroom and playing basketball...He can use the phone whenever he wants.

I don't know but that does not sound like gulog to me.

Wilderness was exactly where he needed to be. I also saw the Mike Wallace clip (actually right here on this website)

My son was restrained within 20 minutes of arriving and within the first few weeks threatened a counsler with a tree branch... these were all learning experiences for him...

One of the biggest lessons he learned was that there were people in this world who would not put up with his crap and who he could not intimidate into giving him his own way.

I have to say that my "son" is actually a man -- 6'2" and 190lbs.  He was bigger than most of the leaders...

Anyway -- to each his own.  I know in my heart that what I did was right for my son.  He has thanked me over and over again...

Maybe it was a fluke and if it is then I am grateful for it -

[AtomicAnt]

I guess I should not have used the term 'Wilderness Therapy." In the wilderness trip I was in, there was no therapy. There were no therapists. There were no group therapy sessions. It was 30 years ago and so many details escape me. I remember we met as a group at the beginning and we all listed goals we had for the program. A counselor added 'develop leadership skills' to my list. I was pretty shy as a teen. After we went through some exercise or other, we would meet and discuss if it fit our expectations and what, if anything, we got out of it.

During one meeting, we were asked to pick a person in the group and say something we liked about that person. There was no feedback allowed to these comments.

No confrontational stuff took place at all.

The high point for me was rock climbing and rappelling. I was (and still am) afraid of heights. It took the counselors at least thirty minutes to talk me over the edge. I cried like a baby. One counselor told me, "If you don't do this now, you will always look back at this moment in your life and regret having not done it." Those words rang true and over I went. Rappelling was so much fun, I did it three more times. I was dropping like a special forces soldier by the end of the day and felt like a boy on fire.

I was sorry they could not get that kid Derrick on Brat Camp to do any of that; rappelling, ropes, trust fall. I did them all and it took all my will to do so, but was well worth it.

This past summer, my eight-year-old wanted me to take him on a mountain gondola. I am still afraid of heights, but not wanting to deny him this experience, I went anyway. He had a great time teasing me by saying things like, "Just think Dad, only one cable is holding us up here and if it goes..." I wanted to strangle him. We took tons of pictures and we will both remember it forever.

---------
But, we digress. You mention you saw the video clip (yes, I copied it from this website) and yet you don't object to the way they forced these kids to hike? You don't mind the strip search? You think that your son was restrained is okay?

What if your son, instead of just threatening a counselor with a tree branch, had killed him instead?

It surprises me, reading about this industry, that there are only a few stories of kids killing other kids and no stories of kids killing staff.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, I'm very stressed, someone give me a nice sloppy blow job...

[Anonymous]

Well -- When we got alone and away from the program I asked him if he was ever physically "forced" to hike.

He said no but that if you "sat" then everyone had to stop and they just waited the person out.  The longer they sat the later they got to camp and the person got to see that their actions had a negative effect on everyone.

There were times they were waiting over an hour for someone to get up.

My son actually got in trouble for giving a "sitter" a hard time.  He called him a wienee -he got in more trouble for talking to him like that than the kid did for sitting.

My son said that the kids actually looked forward to hiking -- now let me say that my son was not out there in the dead of summer but rather in the late summer and fall when the weather is pretty darn nice.  In the winter they wanted to hike to keep warm -- they played games, told stories and jokes and sang songs on the trail.

One of things that was used as a reward when the kids were working well as a group and everyone passed off a phase was something called a three peak.  That was when they would hike to three mountain peaks in one week -- it was a big deal for them.

They also didn't just wander around in the desert.  They went places, they went to a few lakes, a ghost town and even exploring some caves.

They ensured that the kids drank at least 4 quarts of water (they had to get it passed off every day).

He said that at first it was physically hard for him but soon he built up his endurance and enjoyed the hiking -- also we are talking about a good size boy who is more than capable of carrying around a heavy pack.

They would all hike in for parties called "shin digs" to a base camp where all of the groups would hike in and they would have skits, contests and tons of food...They also had a ropes course there.

I saw it with my own eyes - and actually spent the night there in 8 degree weather eating the same food and sleeping in a similar bag outside without shelter on the ground right next to my son - so did his dad.  It was hard but also very beautiful - I had never seen so many stars and really felt the quiet peace of the wilderness.

As far as the tree branch goes -- you have to remember this is the kind of thing my kid was doing at home -- only with a baseball bat -- at least these leaders were able to talk him down and show him that they were not afraid of him and get to the root of his anger which was mostly frustration.  I would have been horrified in either case (home or wilderness) if something had happened.  

The strip search was necessary to keep everyone safe.  They needed to make sure the kids didn't come in with anything the good Lord didn't send them into this world with.

Same thing as Jail -- for the same reasons -- we are not talking about girl scouts here -- or I guess we shouldn't be....

I have always said to my son ....

"If you lay down with dogs - you get up with fleas"

In other words, if you don't want unpleasent things to happen to you then you shouldn't make the choices that get you in those situations in the first place.

The choices he made landed him there -- remember we gave him full forwarning -- even to the point of showing him a brochure -- especially in the days immediately preceeding his departure.

If these kids are in as bad of shape as my son then I'm sure they had been or soon would have been in far more disgusting surroundings than a strip search -- in fact they were laughing about it at graduation.

Honestly that is what baffles me about Redcliff detractors -- my son is not intimidated by anyone and if anything had happened out there that was abusive he would have no trouble telling me about it.

They also gave each one of the kids a survey at the end of the program to get their feedback on every aspect of the program from intake, gear, food, group, leaders etc...

There is no doubt that there are awful programs out there but I don't think Redcliff is one of them -- the industry is ripe for abuse and not well legislated or controlled and parents send kids who don't need to be there...

But for kids like my son -- it was just the ticket.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts -- I know my point of view seems unthinkable to you but then again I hope that you never reach the point with your precious son that I did with mine.  Perhaps your insight and experiences as a youth will actually help you achieve that hope.

Take care..

[Anonymous]

When he wrestled me to the ground in a physical stuggle when I tried to take away his pipe -- that was the last straw. I no longer felt safe in my own home.>>>

aggression begets aggression.
typically by this age parents realize that strong arm tactics don't work. those who haven't figured out a different strategy resort to hired aggressors.

[Notafriendofredcliff]

On 2005-12-23 15:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

"There is no doubt that there are awful programs out there but I don't think Redcliff is one of them -- the industry is ripe for abuse and not well legislated or controlled and parents send kids who don't need to be there...
"

There is only ONE reason parents are ABLE to send kids who don't need to be there.  Redcliff knowingly ACCEPTS those kids, with no due process, and in our case against the recommendation of a qualified professional.  It is a highly profitable business that preys on desperate parents.  At some point they have to be accountable, and begin to make some cursory validation of the child's history.  Presently, the only true requirement is the ability to pay.  Once that is established, they will promptly incarcerate your child for you. Anyone looking at an enrollment application for wilderness therapy would expect to see a history of drug abuse, theft, truancy and/or violence.  And one would expect to see a long list of traditional therapy treatments that were explored prior to taking such a radical step.  My step-son's application had none of that.  No reasonable person would have believed he could be enrolled based on the information they were given.  That should have been a red flag.  It wasn't. A valid credit card authorization was included with the application; that was all that mattered.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-03 22:08:00, Notafriendofredcliff wrote:

"

On 2005-12-23 15:07:00, Anonymous wrote:


"There is no doubt that there are awful programs out there but I don't think Redcliff is one of them -- the industry is ripe for abuse and not well legislated or controlled and parents send kids who don't need to be there...

"

There is only ONE reason parents are ABLE to send kids who don't need to be there.  Redcliff knowingly ACCEPTS those kids, with no due process, and in our case against the recommendation of a qualified professional.  It is a highly profitable business that preys on desperate parents.  At some point they have to be accountable, and begin to make some cursory validation of the child's history.  Presently, the only true requirement is the ability to pay.  Once that is established, they will promptly incarcerate your child for you. Anyone looking at an enrollment application for wilderness therapy would expect to see a history of drug abuse, theft, truancy and/or violence.  And one would expect to see a long list of traditional therapy treatments that were explored prior to taking such a radical step.  My step-son's application had none of that.  No reasonable person would have believed he could be enrolled based on the information they were given.  That should have been a red flag.  It wasn't. A valid credit card authorization was included with the application; that was all that mattered. "

Ya know -- I would have to agree with you -- my son had all of those things you mention - I can't remember if you said that your application had been falsified by the mother --

In any event this is a last resort for sure and I know for myself one that I didn't take lightly -- It seems like Redcliff should have some liability here like you say...

Would it be possible for your husband to sue them civil court at least??? It would seem that based on everything you say they should have liability regardless of what the mother signed...

I know I had to fill out tons of documents and assements.  Medical history and treatment history.  Did you ever get to see those?  Maybe the Mom made you guys out to be wack jobs and she lied on the forms

Again it is just such a different picture than the one we have of this organization that it puzzles me that you con't get anywhere legally.

How is your son doing now?  Mine is doing exceptional.  He calls me several times a week and loves his new school (of course it is not a behaviorial mod/level system or WWASP run place) It is a safe place where he can learn in a drug free environment.

We sold our home and are moving out of state just so that he can have a freash start when he gets home in a few months.

I wish you the best and would tell you to keep pursuing them -- they should be held as accountable for making the mistakes with your son as I hold them accountable for giving my son a new lease on life...

Good Luck.

[Notafriendofredcliff]

If you filled out all the paperwork, you were just wasting your time. It wasn't necessary.  We weren't supposed to see the application, but we received (in error) a full copy of it after he was admitted. If memory serves me (I could check in the files) it was at least 30 pages long. We watched in amazement as it all came in over the fax. It was current with handwritten intake notations on it. The employee who provided it to us was transferred shortly afterward.  Yes, it asked for a tremendous amount of detailed information.  Most of it was left blank. They accepted it anyway.  The information that WAS provided was not sufficient to warrant any action, much less admission to wilderness therapy.

Redcliff wouldn't give us the name of the company who abducted and delivered the boy to them, so we pressed for ALL the documents they had on him.  We were jerked around repeatedly.  We made many phone calls to Steve Naudauld (Admissions Director) until he quit accepting/returning phone calls.  He had told us (and had his attorney assure us) that my husband's Joint Legal Custody was meaningless to them, and they had no intention of sharing any of the paperwork.  Among the paperwork we received in error was a form that listed my husband (amongst others) as someone authorized to receive ALL information about his son.  Steve Naudauld refused to acknowledge the existence of this release, which he had in the file, and we even faxed him a copy of.  Certified mail went unanswered.  We provided them with a court order allowing my husband access to the records.  They refused to acknowledge it.

These are the people you entrusted with your son's welfare.  Read their hiring policies.  You'll be amazed how little is required to be a field staff member.  I'd require more of a babysitter.  Yes, they are regulated, but only to the extent it is possible, when you consider how far out in the desert they are.  If abuse took place, how would a child report it?  Tell an employee?  They've just been abandoned to the "care" of these people, they cannot use a phone, and they certainly cannot get a letter to you that hasn't been in the hands of an employee before it is mailed.  I doubt they check the first batch of letters that go out.  They all start out the same with "Your children are a reflection of YOU".  Standard, and obviously dictated.

Their website shows "independent" studies that prove the effectiveness of their program.  Look up the CVs of their contributors.  One is on their board of directors, the other received over $200,000 for his research, from the OBHIC (then look at the people who run the OBHIC....plenty of Redcliff owners, etc).

The three peak climb is nothing more than an excuse to keep the child longer.  They tell you how much the child is looking forward to this great challenge/experience (and how could you deprive him of such a thing after what he's been through).  In our case it was canceled for some unknown reason.  As for spending the night in the outdoors with your son, you had the luxury of a bathroom and shower, which he never had there.  And you had food, not dried oats and rice.  And you were there of your own free will.  Makes it easier to enjoy the stars and the scenery.

Are you aware that the Redcliff land is a public hunting area? They don't own that land.  There are people walking around out there with guns.

Their contract has a full section on their policies regarding a child being withdrawn by another parent, regardless of custodial status.  It states clearly that ANY parent may withdraw the child with 24 hour's notice.  For reasons we'll never understand, they had different requirements for my husband.  They would not even accept a court order from our home state (which has jurisdiction over the custody), but required that we come to Utah and attempt to get a court order there.  WT is big business in Utah, with a powerful lobby.  We wouldn't have stood a chance.  Of course, they didn't tell us it had to be a UTAH court order until we had blown a ton of time and money in the courts here.  They were buying time.

I don't want to burst your bubble, and I truly hope your son is doing well.  But please understand it's quite common for a kid to experience the euphoric phase after being released from WT, and he still has not been acclimated back into the real world.  It's going to be a long time before you really know how he is doing.

We're not litigious people, and I doubt anything could be accomplished through the courts anyway.  But there needs to be a complete overhaul of this barbaric system, and some due process afforded the children whose families put them into it.  Redcliff accepts quite a few kids who are adjudicated to be there, but many others are placed merely at the whims of their parents. Redcliff SHOULD HAVE an affirmative moral obligation to confirm the status of applicants, to be sure they are not accepting children who are sent there through no fault of their own.  They accepted an innocent child, nearly destroyed our lives, and kept my husband from his son for 80 days.  If you'll read their contract, it basically says they have the right to accept anything you tell them as the truth. They don't have to verify anything.

Things are improving at home.  I'm almost afraid to say that, as every time I do it all goes to hell. We are doing the best we can to assure him we are in this for the long run, and we're not going to give up on him.  I think he's starting to trust us, and believes we are really here for him.  He has a lot of catching up to do since he missed so much school.  He is definitely benefiting from being in a stable loving household.  When I think of what he's been through, I am angry beyond description.  Nobody has the right to strip a child of all his human rights, isolate him from his family, and incarcerate him without justification.  But that's exactly what Redcliff did.

[Anonymous]

It's a damn shame that we joint custody parents can be treated this way.

The legal process for getting them out shouldn't take so long, particularly given that the placement was in violation of our court ordered rights and our spouses are in contempt of court by making the placement without knowledge or consent.

I think programs like the kind of parent who would run ruff shod over the other parent's rights. They feel a kinship of sorts.

If I had it to do again, I would hire an attorney immediately to file for a court hearing, then retrieve my kid and sue for primary custody. Giving the other parent visitation rights only if s/he passed a psych eval.

In hindsight, I think it makes more sense to be proactive rather than wait for the matter to be settled in court. That gives the program and the temporarily insane parent time to conspire on how to present to the court that the kid is on a 'slippery slope' and in need of treatment, which the opposing parent is attempting to 'interfere' with. Perjury if necessary.

Glad your boy is home and has your full support. That is so important after time in any program.

[AtomicAnt]

Thank you Notafriendofredcliff for posting. You did not have to come here and share your private issues with us. Your posts here can be found by parents shopping for help for their children. They will gain valuable insight from them.

As a non-custodial parent, I find it frightening that there are places that will violate court ordered visitation agreements and deny access to a legally entitled parent.

Also, thanks for posting all the way through your experience. Too often, the beginning of the story is told, but then stops and we are all left hanging, wondering, 'whaterver happened to..?'

I wish you and your family the best.

This also goes to the anonymous poster who feels her son is doing much better because of the program. It is taking quite a risk to post level-headed positive stories on a board that seems intent on bashing the entire industry. If parents (and observers like me), are to gain an understanding of these issues, we need to hear from all sides. I wish you and your son the best as well.