Sucess stories from Struggling Teens.com

[Nihilanthic]

I may not understand the exact physiology of how it works... I just know that he is less symptomatic than he was many months ago.  In my opinion it is less important "how" it works... the proof is in the pudding.

Yeah, it is, isnt it?

That right there is my biggest gripe with programs and programmies, bucko. You right there not only just basically stated what I said was a problem as if it wasnt a problem, but also explained the real problem.

You give you children up to people without knowing what is going on or happening, where they are unable to contact you or ANYONE to get help if something goes down, and all you care about is the 'end result'.

How is it so easy to ignore the fact that our whole point is that the means are not justified by the ends, and that the kid is putting on an act so they dont get sent back, or worse, was brainwashed? Does the therapeutic training somehow help you live with yourself?

Therapy isnt abusing someone into acting the way you want them to! Therapy is helping them out WILLINGLY and without torture, coersion or mindcontrol. Its not therapeutic to use those methods, even if they grow up during the 'process'. But then again, I might as well spank a child for having a cold, and when it goes away, claim the spanking did it.

Thats essentially what you just defended, mr therapist.

When elephants ? ght, it is the grass that suffers.

http://jonathangullible.com/translations/UK_Comnt040222.pdf' target='_new'>Kikuyu proverb

[Anonymous]

I understand that many, many, many teens experience abuse at the hands of "therapeutic" programs.  But, is it beyond the realm of possibility that there are good programs that help kids over the hump?  Is is beyond the realm of possibility that there are caring, compassionate professional that are led to minister to our youth.

Please don't have the misconception that I shipped my kid off because he smoked a little weed or got wasted one too many times.  I have tried to get help for this kid since he was 10 years old.  I don't feel I need to justify my decision to my son, myself or anyone else.  My point is to try and help you understand that many parents who make the heartbreaking, gut wrenching decision to place their kids do so as a last ditch effort to save them from themselves.  I agree that many parents ship kids off because they don't want to deal with normal teenage angst.  But there are many of us that have tried everything, everything that we know of to try and help.

My mother in law lost 2(that's two) teenagers to suicide.  When I talked with her prior to this decision, she said she wished she would have had an opportunity to intervene before her kids pulled the trigger.  When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience.  Not brainwashing.  Not wit holding food and water.  Not punitive consequences.  Not abuse.  That is wrong, wrong, wrong.  And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal.  Period.

My desire is to understand your perspectives.  I will not judge.  I will not condemn.  In return, it would be nice to have understand my perspective.  If you choose not too, I respect that too.

I am sorry for the abuse many of you suffered.  It makes me ill to read some of your stories.  And yet, I am at a loss for what else I could have done for my child.

[Deborah]

What prevented you from implementing the same techniques used by the program?
Why didn't you transform your home into a lock-down with a security and surviellence system, remove phones/computers/tv, hold him incommunicado from the rest of the world, complete his education via correspondence, set up unreasonable and unrealistic rules and dole out harsh punishment for violations- physical violence if necessary.
You know, you could've kept your son home and done all those things. Why didn't you?

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-06-15 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I understand that many, many, many teens experience abuse at the hands of "therapeutic" programs.  But, is it beyond the realm of possibility that there are good programs that help kids over the hump?  Is is beyond the realm of possibility that there are caring, compassionate professional that are led to minister to our youth.



Please don't have the misconception that I shipped my kid off because he smoked a little weed or got wasted one too many times.  I have tried to get help for this kid since he was 10 years old.  I don't feel I need to justify my decision to my son, myself or anyone else.  My point is to try and help you understand that many parents who make the heartbreaking, gut wrenching decision to place their kids do so as a last ditch effort to save them from themselves.  I agree that many parents ship kids off because they don't want to deal with normal teenage angst.  But there are many of us that have tried everything, everything that we know of to try and help.



My mother in law lost 2(that's two) teenagers to suicide.  When I talked with her prior to this decision, she said she wished she would have had an opportunity to intervene before her kids pulled the trigger.  When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience.  Not brainwashing.  Not wit holding food and water.  Not punitive consequences.  Not abuse.  That is wrong, wrong, wrong.  And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal.  Period.



My desire is to understand your perspectives.  I will not judge.  I will not condemn.  In return, it would be nice to have understand my perspective.  If you choose not too, I respect that too.



I am sorry for the abuse many of you suffered.  It makes me ill to read some of your stories.  And yet, I am at a loss for what else I could have done for my child. "

Thats a lot of words for saying "some program somewhere must be good, right? And, I really wanna help my kids, but I dont know how, I think a program can."

The issue is this - when you leave shit up to chance and faith (aren't therapists EDUCATED people? You know how facts and evidence and reason work as opposed to faith, right?) you might as well play russian roulette with your childs well being. "Just believe" or "there might be good programs" doesn't cut it, period!

All I'd ask for is the program to be ran openly and transparently - without holding them incommunicado and letting you know what they do, why they do it, how they do it, how it works, and with the kids having the option to work it or not. If you know whats going on, there wont be any risk. It wont be russian roulette. You'll know whats going on and your kid could call you or anyone they wish if bad shit is going down and they need help!

When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience.  Not brainwashing.  Not wit holding food and water.  Not punitive consequences.  Not abuse.  That is wrong, wrong, wrong.  And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal.  Period.

I agree with that 100%. But the thing is, how are you going to know a program is providing that? Because they say so and your kid isnt allowed to talk freely? Because you cant see for yourself and you want to believe so bad its true in your mind?

I need proof. I need empiricism and rational proof and KNOWLEDGE, not faith. FACTS. You seem, at least, to be well meaning, but I just find it rather odd that you say (something I agree with, mind you) that they need acutal love and support... but in a program without knowing that theyre getting it.

Without regulation WITH TEETH, reform, inspects, and most importantly - contact between the child and the outsdie world, and especially with you, without any sort of censorship whatsoever I cant and wont trust any program.

Hell, the reason I got sick of my speech therapist and her boss (all my therapist did was cover my bosses ass, honestly, I think I was the one who didnt let go now that I think back) is that she sent her daughter off to a program for depression.

This included a week with no contact with mom, by force, and 'experiential seminars'. All I got was PERCEPTION etc etc about the damn things, and she ignored my point that if youve been brainwashed or otherwise manipulated, that arguement doesnt work.

The damned lieu control/isolation/seminar/rap/whatever 'therapy' thats used in cookie-cutter fashion to treat everything really doesnt cut it or make any sense. What do you, as a therapist, think of this?

I'm not being patronizing here, I really do want to know.

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

[Anonymous]

"Why didn't you transform your home into a lock-down with a security and surveillance system, remove phones/computers/TV, hold him incommunicado from the rest of the world, complete his education via correspondence, set up unreasonable and unrealistic rules and dole out harsh punishment for violations- physical violence if necessary."
Deborah~
My son is not in a lock down facility.  It is way too simplistic for surveillance and security. (They only house 36 kids) They do have phones, computers and TV (although web access is monitored and so is TV programming.  As it was in my home and will be when he comes home).  They attend lots of community functions, do lots of volunteer work, even go on field trips for school.  I don't feel the rules are unrealistic and his most "harsh" punishment was pulling weeds.  He has never been touched physically except to be hugged.

What could I not implement at home?  24 hour suicide watch.  24 hour drug watch (he was doing meth and PCP and whatever he could get his hands on).  24 hour self mutilation watch (yep, lots of cutting).  Daily therapy.  A live in doctor.  A live in pastor.  And mainly the objectivity of dealing with a very emotionally out of control child who I love with my whole heart.  Plus, do laundry, raise other children, mow the lawn, cook meals, take a shower, etc, etc.  Caring for an emotionally troubled child creates havoc in the whole home.  My other children were neglected as there just was not enough of me to go around.  Bottom line is that I could not provide for the safety and well being that he needed.

[Anonymous]

"The damned lieu control/isolation/seminar/rap/whatever 'therapy' thats used in cookie-cutter fashion to treat everything really doesn't cut it or make any sense. What do you, as a therapist, think of this?"
I think it's crap!  Bullshit!!  Therapy needs to be one on one.  Kids need to be exposed to more than one therapist.  The fit needs to be perfect.  I see some value in group therapy.... but I also see that it can be a whole bunch of drama.  Some of the most effective therapy occurs in 12 step accountability type of formats.  Ya can't shit a shitter.... ya know?

But I think that when a therapist sees a kid once or twice a month (outpatient)that kid can put up a good facade and never make any headway on his real issues.  Put that same kid in a community where he is observed, lived with, meals eaten with and you begin to see the cracks in the facade.  Most kids can pull the raw emotions under their hat for a few days, weeks maybe, but then the true issues surface.  Only then can you get to the root of the anger, the hurt, the self abusive behaviors, the self medicating to the point of oblivion.

Perhaps the types of programs you experienced were too large.  Too profit oriented.  I absolutely believe that one size fits all therapy is a recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous]

"The bottom line is research, why would you send your kid to a program which has deaths and abuse attributed to it? There are many programs which do not. I would NEVER send my child where I cannot visit 24/hrs a day, and where they do not have 24 hrs access to call 911"

Exit Plan~
Very well said.  I would never have sent my child to a place where there was any deaths or abuse.  OMG!  We do drop in unannounced.  I called the area police, the chamber of commerce, child protective services (who makes unannounced visits of their own)former students, former employees, area pastors, etc.  And as I explained my child has never been denied access to phones or the outside world.  When he has a complaint, believe me, we hear about it.  :eek:  He has also had extended home visits.  If ever there were abuse, he had ample opportunities to tell us.  

We did not use an educational consultant.  I can see where there could be some serious lobbying and kickbacks.  We chose this program based on it's own merits.  I did not use an escort service.  We both flew with him, delivered him, did the paper work with him, settled him in and then said our teary goodbyes.

I do not agree with the tactics of the WWSAP or similar programs.  Punitive programming is criminal.  The old adage "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch" is so true.  In this case, I believe the "whole bunch of bad apples" has spoiled the reputation of the good programs that can and do reach our most troubled youths.

Thank you for your perspective.

[Deborah]

Well, even easier then. What, he doesn't create havoc there?
I wonder what parents would do if programs were not available.
I'm thinking of a mom who was a relative on an inlaw whose 16 year old son became a vegetable after a motorcycle accident. He lived for almost 30 years and required constant assistance, tube feeding, diaper changing, etc. His mom did it, and took care of the other children and the house.
I guess it's different when the kid is emotionally injured. Or the parent has the money to hire it done.

I find this revealing:
Put that same kid in a community where he is observed, lived with, meals eaten with and you begin to see the cracks in the facade.

Sounds like an old fashion family to me.

[Anonymous]

Deborah~

"I find this revealing:
Put that same kid in a community where he is observed, lived with, meals eaten with and you begin to see the cracks in the facade"

I was a stay at home mom for 15 of the 15 years that he lived at home.  I home schooled when he was getting stoned at school every day.  I baked cookies, I was always available.  Never missed a football game, band concert or parent teacher conference.  He was observed, lived with and sat down to a hot dinner 6 nights a weeks.  I saw the cracks, the facade was no longer existent.  Trouble was I did not know how to keep him safe or help him function.  

Go ahead throw stones.  It is clear that you do not agree with any placement.  Perhaps you are superwoman.  I am not.  NOR am I a rich person with too much money.  You can continue to pass judgment if you wish.

[Nihilanthic]

Sounds to me like the program you describe is doing the job of a parent, no offence.

All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

[webcrawler]

On 2005-06-15 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I understand that many, many, many teens experience abuse at the hands of "therapeutic" programs.  But, is it beyond the realm of possibility that there are good programs that help kids over the hump?  Is is beyond the realm of possibility that there are caring, compassionate professional that are led to minister to our youth.



Please don't have the misconception that I shipped my kid off because he smoked a little weed or got wasted one too many times.  I have tried to get help for this kid since he was 10 years old.  I don't feel I need to justify my decision to my son, myself or anyone else.  My point is to try and help you understand that many parents who make the heartbreaking, gut wrenching decision to place their kids do so as a last ditch effort to save them from themselves.  I agree that many parents ship kids off because they don't want to deal with normal teenage angst.  But there are many of us that have tried everything, everything that we know of to try and help.



My mother in law lost 2(that's two) teenagers to suicide.  When I talked with her prior to this decision, she said she wished she would have had an opportunity to intervene before her kids pulled the trigger.  When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience.  Not brainwashing.  Not wit holding food and water.  Not punitive consequences.  Not abuse.  That is wrong, wrong, wrong.  And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal.  Period.



My desire is to understand your perspectives.  I will not judge.  I will not condemn.  In return, it would be nice to have understand my perspective.  If you choose not too, I respect that too.



I am sorry for the abuse many of you suffered.  It makes me ill to read some of your stories.  And yet, I am at a loss for what else I could have done for my child. "

I respect what you have to say on this issue and wish the best for your child.

I am very uncomfortable with kids being sent away against their will and the tactics used to break the kids down and rebuild them. Yes, I find it very hard to trust ANY place that does this because of my own experiences. I would also hope that you are not one of those parents that embraces the tough love mentality. How a parent can do that stuff to their kids is heartbreaking.

 Anyone that wants to chirp in and comment about "I didn't sign on to this as a parent" or "it's hard raising kids", etc. meaning it's justified can save it. I'm a parent and I would NEVER send my kids away. Period. I love my kids unconditionally and there is no guarentee or contract I signed before conception stating XYZ that they will do everything I want or I can get rid of them.

I'm wondering if you are willing to disclose the facilty so we have the opportunity to research it?

[Anonymous]

My only, true answer to those, that do not believe in these prograns, is.........  Shut the hell up until you experience what it is trully to be out there.  Yes, some of you, say.... we have been there........ been there when??? never!!! Do you have childen, of you own??  I doubt it, cause of the way you speak, like you have no education about this whatsoever!!  maybe, you were, that child, and it sounds like nothing more like a rebellion answer as is.  Grow up, and stay in you sweet site, leave the rest, to do what they have to do!!!  Unless, you are going to raise that child, shut your mouths, and let the parents do, what they have to.  *NOTICE*  there is no need to use curse words, as many of you seem to need to do to survive.  Let everyone live their life the way they need to, and once again, unless you are going to support and raise that child........  keep you comments to yourself!!!!!

[Anonymous]

On 2005-06-15 21:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My only, true answer to those, that do not believe in these prograns, is.........  Shut the hell up until you experience what it is trully to be out there.  Yes, some of you, say.... we have been there........ been there when??? never!!! Do you have childen, of you own??  I doubt it, cause of the way you speak, like you have no education about this whatsoever!!  maybe, you were, that child, and it sounds like nothing more like a rebellion answer as is.  Grow up, and stay in you sweet site, leave the rest, to do what they have to do!!!  Unless, you are going to raise that child, shut your mouths, and let the parents do, what they have to.  *NOTICE*  there is no need to use curse words, as many of you seem to need to do to survive.  Let everyone live their life the way they need to, and once again, unless you are going to support and raise that child........  keep you comments to yourself!!!!!"

 :wstupid:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-06-15 21:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My only, true answer to those, that do not believe in these prograns, is.........  Shut the hell up until you experience what it is trully to be out there.  Yes, some of you, say.... we have been there........ been there when??? never!!! Do you have childen, of you own??  I doubt it, cause of the way you speak, like you have no education about this whatsoever!!  maybe, you were, that child, and it sounds like nothing more like a rebellion answer as is.  Grow up, and stay in you sweet site, leave the rest, to do what they have to do!!!  Unless, you are going to raise that child, shut your mouths, and let the parents do, what they have to.  *NOTICE*  there is no need to use curse words, as many of you seem to need to do to survive.  Let everyone live their life the way they need to, and once again, unless you are going to support and raise that child........  keep you comments to yourself!!!!!"

LOL ... got some control issues anon?

No wonder you sent your kid away.  Bet that taught him/her who's boss.  

What's 100k?  Heck, that's chump change to a parent hell bent on teaching their spoiled, ungrateful kid a lesson:  PLAY BY MY RULES OR YOU CAN'T LIVE IN MY HOUSE.

Selfish, ego-centered parents are the best candidates for program recruiters.  They just love you!!!

[Anonymous]

Shows how much you know.  My kid is still here, with me, very much.  Completely shows your mentality, which is none!!!!.  Put your beer down and realize, this is what life is about.  Maybe a few years back, it was simple, but the new generation, has changed.   It is a lot different, and a lot toughfer.  Realize this.........  It's a new world!!!!!!!!  Life is different and unless you are living it, you need not say anything about it