Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Mission Mountain School
Positive MMS emperience
Anonymous:
?Like sunshine has written and others, we shouldn't have to go to therapy b/c a school that was supposed to be therapuetic was not. It's absurd to not even address that point when suggesting we should all let mike and deb be.?
You should address this point, but if addressing the point for 10 years hasn?t given you any peace of mind (this based on the assumption that you HAVE been doing some work to overcome your trauma)?then maybe THIS therapy isn?t doing much either. Secondly, aside from a lawsuit that will give you some peace of mind, asking questions directed at Mike and Deb is pointless, because they will NEVER respond. You are wasting your time with questions (at least directed at them), I am sure there are other sources where you may be able to answer if he is a licensed therapist, ie the organization that provides licensing, have you tried this? Just curious, will you really feel better if you have the answers to questions that do not take away your traumatic experience? That is a genuine question, not sarcasm.
?Since when does venting and anger become a bad thing?
When it consumes your life for 10 years.
??just tell them they need therapy, implication being they are not of sound mind and imbalanced, meaning what they have to say is somehow not accurate or valid?. I don't see how on earth that makes sense at all.?
It doesn?t make sense, because no one said that, and you use this logic a lot to brush off peoples?comments. If you read carefully, both m and others have said many times that your experiences ARE valid, the thing is?if you want to have a life not continually affected by MMS, you probably do need some additional therapy.. isn?t that why you are here? Support is a form of therapy, often the best kind. You may see that comment about needing additional therapy as an insult, but I use the term loosely and not insultingly? therapy can be in many different forms outside of a therapist with a PhD, I am sure you have experienced things that empower you and help you overcome other issues.
?And M, I wonder, what on earth are you doing here anyway? I think it strange you would espouse your opinions prior to presenting even a direct line of questioning that would give you more to work with that a simple thread on a forum can...I find it insulting and entirely unprofessional that you would have the audacity to call anyone here whiny and immature given you know little about what anyone is doing. I have grave concerns about your 1. level of commitment to professional conduct 2. ethical code. I can't imagine a single respectable therapist would come on here (just really in itself) and use their credentials (whatever those acutally mean) as leverage and spheak about a topic so ignorantly.?
My goodness, you like to make a lot of assumptions. 1. it?s not leverage to state your credentials, it?s information provided so that girls like you don?t get confused about whether the person writing is a faking alumni or an educated adult. And PS_- credentials mean that the person has had a LOT of experience with kids just like you?it takes something like 5000 hours of therapy to acquire the license she has?. Not to mention a lifetime of experiences that would make yours look like walks in the park. (once again, not invalidating, just putting things into perspective) 2. Ethical code? Are you kidding me? Ignorance? Your logic is very strange. Explain violating ethical code by voicing an opinion on a matter that has deeply affected people she loves and cares for. Also?you are one to speak of ignorance. You know nothing about m, she knows nothing about you, but anyone with a brain can read what you are doing by browsing your public forum. It?s PUBLIC. M knew me all through my experience at MMS, and actually she totally disagreed with Mike?s therapy too. She has close relationships with several alumni, all of whom have had some bad experiences there. So she is not unaware or disagreeing that there were major issues. But the issues you have NOW and the way you choose to handle them are so blatant that any person (not even a therapist) could read and make a few comments on your current state of mind. You want to have a voice, but you don?t want anyone else to have one. There are a million ways to create privacy in a forum if you don?t want to let anyone else speak differing opinions from yours.
Anonymous:
I find Maribell and others tone to be counter-productive as well as unnecessary. For instance, to say things like:" whining " and immature" is both inappropriate--given our tone --and utterly unhelpful. As P.M.S Hacker once correctly pointed out, "burning straw men often creates more heat than light."
katfish:
--- Quote --- 2.Secondly, aside from a lawsuit that will give you some peace of mind, asking questions directed at Mike and Deb is pointless, because they will NEVER respond.
--- End quote ---
Speaking for myself I don't expect a response to any q I and others have posted. It's less of a matter of getting a response and more of a matter of getting them out of my head- though I have a mild curiousity to hear their opinions. Course that wouldn't change anything, but to understand and identify what needs to be understood is an important step in the process of identifying the problem. I think of it more of humourous way of going about it- that is, asking them q. on public forum for people to add as they wish given it was something not allowed during our stay. I will say I received a certain amount of satisfaction adding my own question.
--- Quote --- 3.You are wasting your time with questions (at least directed at them), I am sure there are other sources where you may be able to answer if he is a licensed therapist, ie the organization that provides licensing, have you tried this? Just curious, will you really feel better if you have the answers to questions that do not take away your traumatic experience? That is a genuine question, not sarcasm.
--- End quote ---
The answers to everyones questions would be important given research I'm doing to how what really went on and was allowed to go on and what needs to change to prevent it from happening again. It puts it out there as a ? at least, publicly. It doesn't really matter to me what they have to say, though from a psychological standpoint I would like to understand how on earth one justifies MMS coercive tactics and calls it therapy. But I don't expect a reply. Besides, I think I have my answer at least, in part. Sadism.
--- Quote ---
?Since when does venting and anger become a bad thing?
4.When it consumes your life for 10 years.
--- End quote ---
-touche. LOL Interestingly i have only become consumed by this most recently... then again I'm often heavily consumed by any issue I wish to tackle. I think it also depends on what is meant by consumes and what exaclty you think is being consumed. I think that an act may have a seemingly negative focus from an outsiders perspective but may in fact be a postive thing and have positive impact/effects- an outsider never knows. This is esp when you base that opinion- negative consumption (i assume you mean) of 10 yrs- exclusively on what is going on on this forum. Some girls are only now revistiting this issue, after 10 years of letting bygones be....
--- Quote ---
5. It doesn?t make sense, because no one said that, and you use this logic a lot to brush off peoples?comments. If you read carefully, both m and others have said many times that your experiences ARE valid, the thing is?if you want to have a life not continually affected by MMS, you probably do need some additional therapy...
isn?t that why you are here?
--- End quote ---
But my point is that there are still assumptions being made that may or may not basis in reality, and one can't tell me that their basis for judging the reality of the situation is what's on this forum. Personally, I think that anyone's therapuetic reccommendations should be reserved for people they know- no one can make a valid recommendation unless they know who they are recommending it to and it's rather presumptuous to do so, wouldn't you say?
Oh, and as to why I'm here- no, I'm not here for therapy or to vent- well, maybe sometimes, but more than anything else I just want to have furture girls to be able to look back at what I've written and get from that a feeling it's ok to admit that MMS was a negative experience and that they are not 'crazy' for thinking that. One of the biggest hurdles I think for girls is to feel they are not bad or crazy and somehow being assholes for being critical of the school. That's my therapy, I suppose. If one takes therapy to mean, to an extent, triumphing over bad expereince. Perhaps that may explain my quickness to brush of threrapuetic suggestions- only if a small part. The other part is b/c I find it annoying that anyone can be so brazen to assume so much based on so little and that they are in any position to do so.
--- Quote ---Support is a form of therapy, often the best kind. You may see that comment about needing additional therapy as an insult, but I use the term loosely and not insultingly? therapy can be in many different forms outside of a therapist with a PhD, I am sure you have experienced things that empower you and help you overcome other issues.
--- End quote ---
I see the comment about therapy as a way to get people to feel uncomfortable about voicing opinion on MMS but really only b/c the immature whining part- didn't seem to me that could be interpreted any other way, but I'm human and, as one of them could be wrong...
--- Quote ---
7 .My goodness, you like to make a lot of assumptions. 1. it?s not leverage to state your credentials, it?s information provided so that girls like you don?t get confused about whether the person writing is a faking alumni or an educated adult. And PS_- credentials mean that the person has had a LOT of experience with kids just like you?it takes something like 5000 hours of therapy to acquire the license she has?. Not to mention a lifetime of experiences that would make yours look like walks in the park. (once again, not invalidating, just putting things into perspective)
--- End quote ---
The way M wrote it came across as an attempt to use her position to make her opinion somehow more vaild than they would otherwise be. She write- 'as a xyz i'm appalled....' First thing she writes implies that writing about Mike is wrong b/c he's going through a hard time. Hmmmm....not sure why it would matter she's a therapist and why that would need to be announced if not leverage esp given her aim is to express an opinion and be persuasive in doing so and that the opinion itself is really is kind of suspect. She says, 'you prefer to bash'? and makes suggestion about what should be done alt., therapy and legistlative activism essentially b/c we sound like immature girls who are whining.-- Frankly, I can't see a single statement here that would indicate any degree of commitment to professionalism give- assumptions and redirecting up the wazoo is what I hear. 1. I have never heard an adult use the word bashing (except at MMS) what does that mean? Slight of the hand and suddenly we're mean alumni 2.Assumes girls are ready for action 3.Assumes there's no inherent value in discussion 4. Makes it seem as if further discussion is immature and whiney. I doubt that any professional would come one here and make a blanket statement like that, as has been mentioend i highly doubt this person is a real person and if they are I wonder about them...
It is leverage to use credentials if aim is to alter behavior by listing qualifications as if that makes the paticular opinion somehow more valid than others and is used to state that it is best to become activist and stop 'immature whining' . Some girls may not be in the position to emotionally handle going against the school at any level except through annonymous chatter- MMS did some serious damage to girls on that front. And, given I know this to be true from girls i have spoken with and, maybe M does not, that's the basis for my frustration and for stating that she speaks from ignorance. I also think of the damage, even if miniscule, that saying such things may cause and lending credibility to such a statement may do- that working things out through talking on forum underestimates the power of dialogue and working things out for yourself and assumes girls have the power to do that on a personal level with no peer support.
--- Quote ---2. Ethical code? Are you kidding me? Ignorance? Your logic is very strange. Explain violating ethical code by voicing an opinion on a matter that has deeply affected people she loves and cares for.
--- End quote ---
Ignorance b/c she assumes that girls can take action when frequently there has been great opposition, and not just from the oustide, but from the mind when you consider MMS trained us not to speak against them- and essentially name calling. Unethical b/c, while she may know you and others, she does not know me or the girls she is adressing and to call use words like immature and whining, as a professional, I would think violates any kind of ehtical code established by whatever professional association she may belong to. To me it would be like saying to a patient
(a new patient at that) 'you need to do xyz b/c what your doing now sounds like immature whining' Can you imagine?? LOL That would be grounds to call a meeting with the ethics committee of any reputable psychological/psychotherapuetic or otherwise association.
Esp. given M does not know these girls past nor understands their present. I think it's quite irresponsible to presume to know so much just by any random person, but for a professional to so kind of suprises me.
And certainly her point could have been made clearer & w/o the insults. Not to mention, sounds very much like scolding, given she's 'appalled' and that she's suggesting it is best to not speak of Mike b/c the poor guys suffered.
--- Quote --- Also?you are one to speak of ignorance. You know nothing about m, she knows nothing about you, but anyone with a brain can read what you are doing by browsing your public forum. It?s PUBLIC.
--- End quote ---
ok
--- Quote --- M knew me all through my experience at MMS, and actually she totally disagreed with Mike?s therapy too.
--- End quote ---
What therapits wouldn't? I mean that seriously, if you know any that would I'd like to know b/c I have tons of questions. That doesn't make her any less irresponsible.
--- Quote ---She has close relationships with several alumni, all of whom have had some bad experiences there. So she is not unaware or disagreeing that there were major issues. But the issues you have NOW and the way you choose to handle them are so blatant that any person (not even a therapist) could read and make a few comments on your current state of mind.
--- End quote ---
Who's making assumptions now- this is getting to be tit-for-tat? A forum is nothing more than a series of snapshots of opinions on various topics that may or may not be in their stage of development and open to great deal of interepretation- but that's all it is. You may feel you are comfortable naming whatever issue I have now, but that's just about the silliest thing i've ever hear. you would, in your attempt- as M seems to, lack visible clarity that comes from seeing the big picute and would be entirely speculative - I highly doubt that you your comments would accurately portary any issue I have now- but certainly you can talk about what i've said. You assume what I have said, however, would be an accurate basis from which to state my issues NOW and somehow reflects who I am and so on such a level that would give you a place to insert your opinion on my issues. Forget about whether or not you're qualified, but who on earth are you to list my issues esp. if we have never met and you are no more than a stranger making interpretations on an extremely limited info of words on a forum. I mean, you can read my palm if you'd like, I guess, but what the hell for? And what difference does it make? And why am I even commenting on this? A great deal goes on oustide of this realm, not much covered here.
Beyond the fact that the issue here is not how I deal with my life, past, present or otherwise and that the issue here, this thread in this forum, is about MMS- the point is I could just as easily recommend therapy for just about anyone that crosses my path- but I don't and the reason here is critical to understanding what I'm saying. I don't say, you as a stranger need therapy b/c I don't know really know you and to suggest therapy would be way out of line. A line of etiqutte perhaps MMS did not teach us...I don't even know you nor you me nor m - and reading some threads written on a forum- despite if it may feel as if you do- you don't know me. Therapy is a very personal choice- esp. given most people would have to struggle a great deal to even afford the cost, it's a suggestion that friends and loved ones make to each other Not complete strangers to one another. And yet, I hear it all to often sugested and thrown around w/ no grounds or basis, execpt some excerpts on a forum, to do so. So when I say ignorance, I do in fact mean ignorace.
--- Quote ---You want to have a voice, but you don?t want anyone else to have one. There are a million ways to create privacy in a forum if you don?t want to let anyone else speak differing opinions from yours.
"
--- End quote ---
There exists a private forum for alumni, but publicly i don't have any problem w/ people who have a differing opinion- but insults are different and so is discounting what is being said and not conceding to the problems of MMS. But no one should have to agree and that's what discussion is for. And, in reality, if I truely didn't want anyone else to speak up and be able to reply and have a dialogue with to make my point, I wouldn't be here. I encourage more people to speak up.
I wrote this earlier---
I don't mind other people speaking out, I simply have grave concrens that other girls who have left the program and had bad experiences may look at this forum and feel like they may not be able to express their feelings b/c of people who through around terms like 'MMS bashing' and 'you are the one with the problem' and suggesting that THEY seek help to recover from a school that was supposed to provide them with such treatment. I may jump the gun, but, if you look back you may be able to see how frequently that has been a problem
BIRDLADY360:
I SENT MY DAUGHTER TO MISSION MOUNTAIN SCHOOL 9YRS AGO. SHE LEFT HOME DURING A HOME VISIT BECAUSE OF THE PURE FEAR SHE HAD OF MIKE. NOT TO MENTION THE FEAR SHE HAD FOR JOHN. YES, SHE TRIED TO DO THINGS TO GET EXPELLED, BUT WE WERE NOT ALWAYS PRIVY TO IT. BEFORE SENDING HER AWAY MY HUSBAND AND I SPOKE TO JOHN IN PERSON ABOUT THE SCHOOL AND ASKED MANY QUESTIONS. WE LEFT FEELING SADDENED BY THE FACT THAT OUR DAUGHTER WOULD NOT BE LIVING WITH US. WE COULD NOT HELP HER TO HELP HERSELF. I FELT THAT TIME AWAY FROM HER FORMER FRIENDS WAS A MUST. WE DID NOT AND HAVE NOT EVER GIVEN UP ON HER. I SPOKE TO DEB ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS ABOUT MY CONCERN OF THE HTE HARSH TREATMENT I HAD SEEN AT THE SCHOOL. I WAS ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT THE TWO OF THEM WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE GIRLS. I EVEN TOLD HER I DID NOT WANT TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE FOR THE TWO OF THEM IN THEIR RELATIONSHIP OUTSIDE OF THE SCHOOL. THAT WAS WHY I NEVER WENT INTO MUCH DISCUSSION OF HOW I FELT ABOUT MIKE'S ABUSE BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS MY DAUGHTER OR SOME OF THE OTHER GIRLS. I DO FEEL GREAT PAIN AND SYMPATHY FOR THE LOSS OF THEIR SON. MY DAUGHTER LIKED THEIR KIDS AND ENJOYED PLAYING SO
CCER WITH THEM. AS A PARENT, WE TRY TO DO OUR VERY BEST FOR OUR CHILDREN. SOMETIMES THEY NEED A ANOTHER APPROACH THAT WE CAN NOT DELIVER OURSELVES. PLEASE DO NOT BASH THEM OVER THE WAY THEIR SON DIED. THEY WILL ALWAYS LIVE WITH PAIN AND EMPTINESS KNOWING THAT THEY DID NOT SUCCEED IN HELPING HIM. UNTIL YOU EXPERIENCE THE PAIN OF BEING ABLE TO HELP OTHERS BUT NOT THOSE CLOSEST TO YOU, YOU CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THEIR PAIN. MIKE AND DEB, IF YOU READ THIS YOU MAY CONTACT ME. PAM
Anonymous:
what do people mean by bashing? perhaps there's a miscommunication because what i see is alumni who have had previous experience with Mike expressing the fact that they are not suprised that, given the way mike treated them when they were depressed, that their own son could not be offered the help he needed by Mike nor by Deb. Sad but bashing? i dont see it.
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