Author Topic: Who's making it and how?  (Read 23323 times)

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Offline Tampa survivor

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Who's making it and how?
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2002, 02:01:00 PM »
Majik...great point on bitterness...
I have been happily broke more than once.
Maybe I should say
 what seperates those who have failed to reach sucess and SEEM bitter about it.
Liked your post.
Nice eastern feel to it.
Bill
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Bill H
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2002, 09:15:00 PM »
As a matter of fact a number of my my neighbours are refugees from the States.  But don't worry It's clear that KIDS and The Straights did a better job of indoctrinating you than you realise.  The Bushes, the Semblers, the Straights  -- all part of the same repressive regime, right?, land of the free, home of the brave, right?  With an incarceration rate higher than anything under the Soviet regime?
Are you guys fans of Pat Buchanan or what? Is that what the Straights teach you?
I just love needling right wing Americans, they are such idiots.  Read Chomsky (the most highly respected American outside of the US) and you'll understand.

As for the people moving south of the border,  that's actually a myth.  As my son said after spending a couple of months working down there "It's a hell-hole, we have a much better quality of life."   Again, go see "Bowling for Columbine"  You guys are self-destructing.  You may not see it yet but consider what Jeb Bush's daughter is trying to tell you?  Ask why, and look in the mirror.
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Offline gagesteele

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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2002, 09:31:00 PM »
Please, guys, please don't do this Canada vs. USA thing.  Don't let the conversations devolve into a blamey, nationocentric game.  _That_ is destructive, and the directors of your programs would probably eat it up hand over fist.

You're all on the same side, here.  Remember?

Sara
Amity School Founding Class, 1988
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ara
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2002, 09:37:00 PM »
Well Bill, I have a friend who is suffering from leukemia and was told she may only have six months to live.  Her husband took her to to the States  because he thought she'd get better treatment.  One problem, it would cost $2,000,000.00.  Upon retun to Canada she discovered she could have the same (or better) treatment here and it wouldn't cost a penny.  And there was no waiting list.  That was three years ago.  She's still getting treatment if and when it is needed.
Maybe you need to ask Kiefer Sutherland (TV program "24")about the difference between  the US & Canadian Systems.
The point is, privatetreatment facilities such as the KIDS have one motivation -- profit  -- and what is destroying US health care is HMO's .  The same insurance companies that want to get involved in Canada, and the pharmaceutical industry don't give a shit about people.  It's just the bottom line.  Whether you realise it or not, we're all victims of a ruthless, inhumane system that is destroying the world in the interests of the bottom line.  The drug war is really a turf war between the Hell's Angels (and organised crime such as the Semblers and Bushes) and the pharmaceutical companies.......... But let's get back to the real purpose of this board.  The survivors of Straights, inc, and the KIDS need help.  If  the people responding to my post are survivors , your posts only reflect how badly you've been damaged.  If you are proponents of the Straights (which I suspect), you really have no clothes.
Heil, Sembler.
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2002, 10:00:00 PM »
Sara:
My intention was not to do that.  The problem is that the Drug War is largely developed by the US Christian right and other fundamentalists -- they are the basis of KIDS, the Straights, etc.  
There is much that I as a Canadian admire in the  people of the US.  But your government is failing you, and I think the American people are beginning to sense that (ours is too, but in a different way).  I was shocked on September 11th and wept along with everyone else --- but I wasn't surprised that it happened  in part because it demonstrated Western policies, led by corporate America  coming home to roost. That's why I think you should all see "Bowling for Columbine" and read "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore.

And don't worry, being called an asshole or a fuckhead doesn't bother me.  It just reinforces my opinion of those people as lacking an educated vocabulary.  I hope they feel better for getting it off their chests.
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Offline Tampa survivor

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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2002, 12:16:00 AM »
"If the people responding to my post are survivors , your posts only reflect how badly you've been damaged. If you are proponents of the Straights (which I suspect), you really have no clothes.
Heil, Sembler. "

I seriously wonder if you have read any of our other posts. straight supporters are rarely public about it here, and I AM NOT ONE.
As for your freind, I am glad she is doing better.  I SAID our system is totally screwed.  Profit possiblity leads innovation, and that is why we invent all the coolest, newest scanners, tests, drugs, CT, MRI,PET etc.  The sad part is that only a portion of us are paying, the government pays for some, insurance for others, and some just dont pay.
It is truly a multifocal cluster fuck.
But if I get something really bad, I don't see myself flying to Moscow or Montreal for treatment.
I have absolutly enjoyed the western provinces of your beautiful country.  The people were nice, scenery perfect, and if it wasn't so damned cold half the year, I woulda stayed longer.
Bill
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Bill H
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Offline junkyrd

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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2002, 12:37:00 AM »
I had the drive, I wanted to get out and away from where my family was. I was lucky enough that school just wasn't that hard -until calculus-ugh! I was so intense after straight that I attacked every task with some kind of weird vengance. In hindsight, I think I just wanted to prove everybody wrong and show 'em all that I could be successful, that I did amount to something. I was lucky enough to have access to college. I love to build things. Especially machines, and picked a career where I could be part of building really big stuff.

There have been many, plenty of times where I just did whatever I had to do to get by. One day at a time. Especially as a single parent. Having a kid made it imperative that I finish school so I could provide for my own. Made it imperative that I find a good job. Having losers for husbands 1&2 made it imperative that I be totally self-sufficient. Natural interest, farm work and crappy cars taught me mechanics. I could/can always find something to do.

Once I had the good job, I did the best I could. Damn 5th phase eagle eye serves well finding a faulty weld in a smoky flashlight beam. Or a rotten bulkhead, or bad wiring, or a sweaty welder with a back pocket full of rods working on a hull seam. My boats have never fallen apart or caught fire or taken on water due to poor workmanship at construction or repair. I can't help it when idiot Boudreaux pulls the flukes on the stern anchor up through the transom!

The point is, without drive and desire, the opportunity means nothing. Having drive and desire, creates opportunities or improves upon others.

My desire to surpass the expectations of my relatives has caused me to fight for achievement. I made it in a tough field, I'm the first woman to hold my position in the company history of 150yrs. I feel satisfied. I drive an old car, nothing shiny, piglet in the shed (iron head sporty), have a junky yard and am content with that. Short of catastrophe, I have the ability to give my kids access to college like I had. I hope I can pass on a desire to them to reach for their goals and let nothing deter them from achieving their dreams. After all, that is the point.

Trish





"Who thinks progress in an individual comes from a government program or "opportunity"?
Who thinks opportunities are made by individual drive?
What seperates the engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers and web designers among us from those who are bitter? Some lament the "system" being against them, where others thrive under the same system.
How are you doing?
I wonder if the achievements of straightlings is higher, lower or equal to societies norm. "
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Offline ClayL

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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2002, 10:35:00 AM »
Micheal Moore is NOT representative of most Americans. You can look at the utopian gun control country of Great Britian. Since banning all firearms, crimes commited with firearms have skyrocketed. Now GB has more violent crime than the US and that is using a statistical method, unlike the US, that minimizes crime reporting. Micheal Moore is so liberal that Carl Marx is to his right.

CL
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2002, 02:59:00 PM »
Unreal!  Spoken like a true victim of the Straights.  It's kind of like the battered wife syndrome.  Constantly beaten up by the system, you can't see any better way, and can't get out.  Yes it's true, there has been a significant increase of crime in Britain -- SINCE Margaret Thatcher adopted the US war on drugs as a matter of policy,  but still, the RATE of violent crime there remains way below the US.
Read "The Manufacturing of Consent" by Noam Chomsky
Here's some statistics for you:
since 1979, 85,000  American children have been killed by firearms in the US.
A gun will take the life of an American child at the rate of a classroom every two days.
Nearly three times as many children under ten die from gunfire as the number of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.
Here are the number of children killed by firearms in 1996:
Japan -- 0
Britain -- 19
Germany -- 57
France -- 109
Canada -- 153
USA -- 5,285

According to the US Centre for Disease control and Prevention, compared to children in other developed countries, US children under the age of fifteen are:
16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun
11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun
9 times more likely to die in a firearms accident.
This year an average  a youth under age 20 will be shot to death once every 2 1/2 hrs.  In Canada, fewer than two per month.
The United States has the highest homicide rate OF ANY OF THE WORLD'S TOP THIRTY DEVELOPED NATIONS.
In 1999 15,333Americans were murdered.  Throughout the nineties the RATE per hundred thousand of population was one third in Canada what it is in the US.
In 2000 in Toronto there were 81 homicides, In Chicago there were 644.
More than half of the guns in Canada recovered from crimes originate in the US (But we send you pot, which sends your Drug Czar running around the country threatining us with reprisals if we DARE to legalize it)
"The Economist" reports that "the suicide rate for Americans tripled between 1950 and 1994"

My point in all this is not to denigrate American people but to draw attention, on this forum to the fact that the war on drugs, the Straights, etc are a fundamental component of the highly repressive regime that you live under.  

And what I see on this specific discussion... "who's making it and how" is a discussion of  "success" driven by assumptions that are essentially identical to those upon which  the  Semblers and the Bushes operate.   Social Darwinism personified.  Survival of the fittest, and devil take the hindmost.  

The irony of it all is, that Milton Friedman the darling of the whole system did not advocate the war on drugs, though that is what  Thatcher and Reagan intensified during the 70's, (quoting Friedman on everthing else)

So, if there's been an increase in crime in Britain, it certainly seems to be correlated with an increasing "Americanization" of it's means of social control.

But fear not, the whole house of cards will come tumbling down as a consequence of your country's war on everything. And there will be more Straights, and more hysteria and more drugs, and the DEA will continue to do what it has been doing and your incarceration rate will continue to increase, and more kids will continue to commit suicide and there will be more snipers, and there will be more Columbines.  
There has to be a real sea change in attitudes, and if the responses to my posts on this web site are anything to go by, it just ain't happening.
Read Robert Fisk
Read John Pilger
above all, Read Chomsky
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2002, 03:39:00 PM »
Quote:


On 2002-11-16 18:15:00, Hamiltonf wrote:As a matter of fact a number of my my neighbours are refugees from the States.  


And, while working in medical communications (i.e. answering service), I encountered a whole lot of wealthy Canadians who came to Florida for medical care while poor Americans migrate to Canada for medeocre tax funded medical care. The trouble with American healthcare in the last half century or so is that it has become more and more like socialist systems. I'm not that old, not even 40. And yet I can remember routine physicals for $10/head. My dad held one job, maybe did a side job here and there for extra cash, and well supported the 8 of us. That simply can't be done these days, unless the bread winner is fortunate enough to land up with a $100k income or better.

Quote:


On 2002-11-16 18:15:00, Hamiltonf wrote:But don't worry It's clear that KIDS and The Straights did a better job of indoctrinating you than you realise.  The Bushes, the Semblers, the Straights  -- all part of the same repressive regime, right?, land of the free, home of the brave, right?  With an incarceration rate higher than anything under the Soviet regime?



Right, with the primary theme being coercion. We're forced to pay through our taxes for whatever the political professionals define as professional medical care while being prohibited, under threat of incarceration, from making our own medical choices.

I think I liked it better when medical care was relatively affordable and controled by doctors and patients. The more government gets involved in our medical system the more fouled up it gets.

Quote:


On 2002-11-16 18:15:00, Hamiltonf wrote:
As for the people moving south of the border,  that's actually a myth.  As my son said after spending a couple of months working down there "It's a hell-hole, we have a much better quality of life."   Again, go see "Bowling for Columbine"  You guys are self-destructing.  You may not see it yet but consider what Jeb Bush's daughter is trying to tell you?  Ask why, and look in the mirror.    

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Tampa survivor

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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2002, 04:08:00 PM »
What shall we do?
What a gloomy message.  Civilization is doomed in America.  What will you Canadians do then? I guess ya'll can have Detroit and Cleveland.
Get a grip.  Darwin was right.  4 billion years of it right on Discovery channel.  Think about this.
Would the sharks and cockroaches have had a few hundred MILLION year run if they had carried the weak amongst them upon the shoulders? No. Our system strives to strike a balance between the inhumanity inherent in nature(social darwinism/libertarianism/anarchist baloney) and the desire to help the weaker among us altruistically(communism/socialism/progressive/marxist baloney).
It is not perfect.  We have had our problems.  We have made many enemies with our arrogance and intrusion worldwide.    
But our system has sheparded us to prosperity as a whole, many share in the wealth, our food, water, air is safer than most places. Our roads rock, all have reliable electric power 24 hours a day (try that trick in 70% of the world), internet connection choices, cheap reliable long distance phone,etc etc.  
 
I think there MAY still be some in Europe who remember our contribution to a favorable outcome in 2 world wars.
I wish we could all hang out, hit the bong and sing folk songs, but most of the world is tribal, hate for someone nearby filled people.  They don't read Noam Chomsky OR Friedman.  
Lemme guess, your not a big Ayn Rand fan?
Bill
"America...it doesn't suck."  PJ O'Rourke
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2002, 04:50:00 PM »
Alright I'm going to have to put my 2ยข into all of this socio-political jibber-jabber...I heard of a case in England where a farmer defended his property against someone who was continuously robbing his home and getting away with it. He shot (and possibly killed) the man while in his house. Because of the (anti) gun laws over there, this poor guy ROTS IN JAIL - what do you think of that, Hamiltonf? And by the way, which branch of straight were you in? (if you've stated this already forgive me)
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Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2002, 06:12:00 PM »
You're bringing up ONE anecdote against the overwhelming odds of your country's own statistics!
Ayn Rand would have loved the Straights.

Try this:
By John Chuckman

(YellowTimes.org) ? Pat Buchanan recently called Canada "a haven for terrorists," a place with lax security. His words struck me as a bit odd considering that not one of the Gang of Nineteen involved in 9/11 came from, or even through, Canada. They all entered the United States from other places, and they all had American-issued visas.

It would be hard to imagine a more grotesque example of lax security than an attack on America's temple to the military, the Pentagon. Letting that happen when you spend $30 billion a year on intelligence and hundreds of billions on defense surely qualifies as world-class laxness, probably good enough to claim a place in the Guinness Book of Records, if it weren't just so downright embarrassing.

The military drum-beat crowd likes to ignore that little fact as they harangue those who don't agree that police-state measures or, for that matter, blowing up women and children in Baghdad, just naturally follow from the events of 9/11.

Pat's crowd also ignores the fact that, after decades of hijackings and threats to commercial aircraft in America, and despite clear warnings there were people out there with some very unpleasant intentions (recall Mr. Clinton's fleet of cruise missiles hurled at camps in Afghanistan), the American Congress never bothered with such elementary new security measures as strengthening cockpit doors or improving the professionalism of airport-security staff.

Yes, the entire horror of 9/11 could have been avoided by a Congress that had just done its job. But that's not the approach with which Pat's political crowd is comfortable. Sensible preparations? 'Why, boy, that sounds distinctly like interferin' in private enterprise, maybe even some of that there socialism!'

No, Pat's crowd waits for disaster and then responds by shoveling tens of billions at idiotic, irrelevant military schemes and working overtime to unravel the very parchment of the Bill of Rights. Any resemblance to fascism is strictly coincidental.

Pat contemptuously refers to Canada as "Soviet Canukistan." He never pauses to explain what that goofy epithet means, but it does reveal something about his thinking. You could fairly deduce that in Pat's mental atlas, America then assumes the relative position of Soviet Russia.

But what's meaning to a guy like Pat? You go for the cheap wisecrack and race on to make the next one. The phrase, of course, has the earmarks of Rush Limbaugh's pimply-teenager-at-camp, self-satisfied snickering, but that's all you require for success in America's television politics. No wonder Americans are so poorly informed: fraternity boy acts pass for political commentary.

Canada is a "freeloading" country according to Pat, lapping up luxurious security courtesy of the U.S. defense budget, a regular hog at the trough. People like Pat never explain what it is from which Canada is being defended .

If it makes Americans feel good, Canadians are willing to say they are grateful for being defended, but, in secret, many scratch their heads about for what it is they are supposed to be grateful. Canada does not have a serious enemy in the world. The only country in a good position to threaten Canada is, in fact, the United States, but that does make a convincing argument to keep right on saying thanks for all that defense, especially with Pat's crowd running the place.

The world, quite correctly, does not regard Canada as a partner in America's uglier plots and stunts, and Canada enjoys a significant margin of safety from terror simply by virtue of that fact.

America makes a lot of enemies pushing people around, claiming high ideals all the while. Nobody likes a bully, and most people are repelled by noisy hypocrisy. America maintains its bloated, costly, and increasingly dangerous armed forces precisely to do all that pushing and protect itself from the consequences.

Looked at in this way, calls by Americans like Buchanan - or for that matter America's current, intrusive Ambassador to Ottawa, Mr. Cellucci - for Canada to spend a great deal more on defense really amount to demands that Canada subsidize America's efforts to impose its often poorly informed and generally selfish notions on the world.

I once read an article written by a man who grew up with Buchanan. He described what an unpleasant street-tough Pat was, a bare-knuckles troublemaker who roamed his neighborhood territory, always ready for an argument and a fight - a regular backyard brown shirt.

That story might not be worth relating so many years later, had Pat demonstrated some capacity for growth, but he hasn't, not a bit. He's too old and puffy to use his fists now, so he's substituted his mouth. And if you listen carefully to what he says and the way he says it, you just might recognize the shrill and painful sounds of a badly abused child

[John Chuckman is former chief economist for a large Canadian oil company. He has many interests and is a lifelong student of history. He writes with a passionate desire for honesty, the rule of reason, and concern for human decency. He is a member of no political party and takes exception to what has been called America's "culture of complaint" with its habit of reducing every important issue to an unproductive argument between two simplistically defined groups. John regards it as a badge of honor to have left the United States as a poor young man from the South Side of Chicago when the country embarked on the pointless murder of something like three million Vietnamese in their own land because they happened to embrace the wrong economic loyalties. He lives in Canada, which he is fond of calling "the peaceable kingdom."]

John Chuckman encourages your comments: [email protected]

Oh, and are you going to tell me that any resemblance between Straight Inc, KIDS and Hitler Jugend  are purely coincidental?
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uote of the Year
The Bush administration has succeeded in making the United States one of the most feared and hated countries in the world. The talent of these guys is unbelievable. They have even succeeded at alienating Canada. I mean, that takes ge

Offline Hamiltonf

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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2002, 06:18:00 PM »
Be nice to hit the bong and hang out.  I was never in the Straights but was referred to this site by someone who knew a person that had been.

Which prompts me to ask a question.  What proportion of the inmates were black?  Photo's I've seen are entirely peopled with whites.
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uote of the Year
The Bush administration has succeeded in making the United States one of the most feared and hated countries in the world. The talent of these guys is unbelievable. They have even succeeded at alienating Canada. I mean, that takes ge

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2002, 06:32:00 PM »
Re: Hamilton...
I think what the guy is saying in part came up on another thread:
"Narcotics have been systematically scapegoated and demonized. The idea that anyone can use drugs and escape a horrible fate is an anathema to these idiots. I predict that in the near future right-wingers will use drug hysteria as a pretext to set up an international police apparatus."
--William S. Burroughs

And haven't you been scapegoated by an American dream turned sour?
The War on drugs to replace the Cold War,
Plan Colombia.  Paying the Taliban when they say they stopped growing heroin. Shooting down missionaries in Peru. (oops, that was a mistake)  
2 Million people incarcerated, 25% of the world's prisoners?
Get the picture yet?
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