Who's making it and how?

[Tampa survivor]

I saw a common theme surfacing on a few other threads (see Pro Potheads last couple pages) with some straight survivors feeling very strongly about self-reliance and others who seem to believe that somebody else is responsible for people's failures.
Who thinks progress in an individual comes from a government program or "opportunity"?
Who thinks opportunities are made by individual drive?
What seperates the engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers and web designers among us from those who are bitter?  Some lament the "system" being against them, where others thrive  under the same system.  
How are you doing?  
I wonder if the achievements of straightlings is higher, lower or equal to societies norm.

[hedwigfan]

Interesting question. I'm personally motivated by an inner drive, something that I suppose has always been there, but has been asleep at times. It took me 16 years to complete my bachelor's degree, and an additional 4 years to obtain my medical degree. I am deeply in debt after med school, working for slightly over minimum wage as a resident, and am truly looking forward to completing my training so I can start paying down my debt and maybe even start to save! Even so, becoming a doctor has been worth the blood, sweat, and tears, because I did it myself, with the support of my husband and kids. No handouts from anyone, just alot of hard work, determination, and personal sacrifice.
  Down at Grady Hospital, you see alot of folks who feel someone else is responsible for the choices they've made in life. While I believe some folks (mainly kids) truly are victims of our system, I think there are some other people who get lots of handouts, yet still feel entitled to more. I'm really not sure how they contribute to society or why they feel so entitled. Seems like the more some people are given, the less determined they become to work for what they have. Just an observation. Tough question with no right answers.

[Anonymous]

One of the common threads in my mother's house was the fact that I never finished anything in my life.  I skipped my senior year of high school, I withdrew from Straight, I attended 3 different universities without completing a degree.  I am on my third marriage...
Pretty much, I have been told the only thing I have ever gotten right is the way that I am raising my children.  Were I not able to bite my tongue, the retort would be-  because I have done everything the exact opposite of the way you did, mom!  

I am getting better at sticking with things now that I am older, I have been in my current industry for 5 years. I "feel" settled about my life, I am okay with my job, I thank God for my husband and kids, I wouldn't trade them for the world.  My husband has been especially instrumental in helping me come to some of the realizations that I have had recently.  He has a way of helping see there may be another way to perceive something than the original take I may have on something.

[METALGOD8]

If at first you dont succeed, give it up, it's pointless! LOL.... Well, not quite, but close for me. When I quit being employed in 1993, I had a vision of being rich and popular amongst the less fortunate and wanted to help. ALways wanting to help others since nobody seems to care about anybody these days. I started a recycling business, LOL, how stupid that was now that I have failed miserably at it. I was awake one week for 162 hours trying to get all the work done. That's what it was, all work, no pay. I keep thinking I will make it big one day, get that "contract" from NASA, or some other entity that will ensure my financial security. Nowadays, I mine gold from computer components, but most of the money goes back to the suppliers. It is a rough business, I see people making money right before and right after I get there. If Joe buys a whole fuckin storage bin loaded with 500 computers for $50, then he comes up to me the next day and says, you wanna buy these PC's for $2 each? HOLY SHIT! He is making a friggin million bucks off me, the sucker. Let me tell you, this kind of shit follows me around too. I can't blame my money shit on other people, but when do I get my break? I'd love to have it easy like Joe. Sure, every once in a while a deal real sweet comes along, but somehow, some way it finds out how to screw up and turn into a nightmare. LOL... I agree that the more handouts you get, the easier it is to relax. I am guilty of that. I also think that getting depressed about failing has something to do with it. I put a lot of eggs in a lot of baskets which is stupid, business wise, and I am a glutton for punishment when someone wants to buy my stuff for dirt cheap. Back in 98, some asshole stole 55 airconditioners out of my storage box, one week before Christmas. We have 6 kids and I was so pissed off that I wanted to kill that MO FO!. I even cornered him at the scrapyard and he said they were his for the taking, my name wasnt on them. That SOB, let me tell you, that was a sign of times to come. I never got reimbursed, whatever, water under the bridge. Scrap metal aint diamonds. I tried getting him banned from the scrapyard, but they laughed at me! LOL... I want to be successful, at least I never give up 100% theres hope somewhere. Maybe I will find a job that will pay enough, then not be self employed like this. I love being my boss. My family suffers for it though, and I am not happy about that. but as long as we can stay together and work it out, what else is there to do? Oh and my gold buyer died, so I have a problem selling that. just another example of the shit that happens.  MG8

[kosmonaut]

"Who thinks progress in an individual comes from a government program or "opportunity"?

What kind of government program are you talking about?  Speaking for myself I've never been the beneficiary of any government program.  Individuals can progress, although most people just wanna be entertained.  

"Who thinks opportunities are made by individual drive?"

I think in our society there are a handful of people who get ahead by individual drive alone.  The rest get ahead by using other people as rungs for their success ladder.  Harsh but it's the truth.  

"What seperates the engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers and web designers among us from those who are bitter?"

People in those occupations have the same problems as everyone else.  Many of them are bitter too.

"Some lament the "system" being against them, where others thrive under the same system. How are you doing?"

I'm treading water, and have been my whole life.  I have a good job, and a place to live and have no complaints, but I'm still living month to month.  I guess that's fine for now.  I've always felt like I go against the grain of society.  I've learned to fit in, but in my heart I despise it.  What else can you do?


"I wonder if the achievements of straightlings is higher, lower or equal to societies norm."

I would guess lower since many of us had our personalities pushed through a meat grinder during our formative years.  The ones who were lucky enough to get support later on from people who cared probably had a better chance.  I know I'm one of those people.

[Froderik]

"Who thinks opportunities are made by individual drive?"

I would have to pick this one. Although there could be exceptions (i.e. a really great job) About 1/4way thru highschool I began to lose interest in just about every subject but English. Could chalk it up to drugs, but the bottom line is I just got bored with the academics...The only way I could see myself as truly being happy AND successful is by doing something that I wanted to do & 'being my own boss...'

 ¥ ¥  and don't forget this page...  ¥ ¥

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=20&25

[ This Message was edited by: AlexL on 2002-11-13 11:47 ]

[Antigen]

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 18:24:00, Tampa survivor wrote:I saw a common theme surfacing on a few other threads (see Pro Potheads last couple pages) with some straight survivors feeling very strongly about self-reliance and others who seem to believe that somebody else is responsible for people's failures.

How about both? I don't think anyone else is responsible for any of my own failures or poor choices. However, others are responsible for some misfortunes that have befallen me through no choice of my own. I'm pretty happy with where I've landed up in life despite adversity. But still very resentful over some things that have been done to me.  

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 18:24:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
Who thinks progress in an individual comes from a government program or "opportunity"?

To err is human. To thoroughly foul things up requires government funding.

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 18:24:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
Who thinks opportunities are made by individual drive?

No, opportunities come and go. It takes a little personal drive to recognize them and to pursue them.

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 18:24:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
What seperates the engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers and web designers among us from those who are bitter?  Some lament the "system" being against them, where others thrive  under the same system.  
How are you doing?

Nothing. I'm pretty successful as a website developer. And still pretty pissed off. I thrive on turning my ability and my drive toward efforts that will pay my bills and also further causes that I think will help set right some of what's wrong with 'the system.' Here's one http://JonathanGullible.com/ And another, http://Trebach.org/ and another, comming soon, http://ADrugWarCarol.com/

Quote:

On 2002-11-12 18:24:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
I wonder if the achievements of straightlings is higher, lower or equal to societies norm.

From all I've seen and heard, it's much lower on average.

[ClayL]

I'd say that I am doing quite well. I am not, however where I wanted to be at this point in my life. I had to stop and repair the considerable damage done by straight and beyond. I know quite a few former straight clients/prisoners that are doing very well for themselves. I know some who have fallen off the face of the earth and haven't heard from them in years. When I get focused on something, I could bite nails and piss rust. The trouble is getting me focused. I think the former clients of straight are no better or worse off than everyone else. I do think that we, as a group, have had serious harm done to our ability to mature at the pace of the rest of society. I also believe that unless we seek help, we will be unabe to mature enough to be a productive member of society. I think we, the former clients/prisoners of straight are seriously fucked up people all suffering from PTSD to some degree or another among the cornucopia of other disorders, also caused or agravated by straight.

On another note, I think charity should be handled by chuches and humanitarian organizations like it was before FDR and LBJ. Great society my ass. I think private groups, whose members have a vested interest, should perform the functions of Social Security, and ALL the rest of the "entitlements." Hell, the Constitution was written by a bunch of RICH white guys. You think they put something about entitlements in there? I am incredibly conservative on all issues except these:

1.) The death penalty is wrong. I want no part of it.
2.) If a person is old enough to fight and die for their country, they are old enough to have a drink in that country. Goes for smoking dope also.
3.) I believe an abortion is wrong, but that JUST my belief. What you believe is YOUR belief.
4.) If someone wants to watch porn. Good for them. If someone wants to be in porn, good luck.

I believe the second amendment says I have a personal RIGHT to have any light weapon the military has. This includes machine guns.

Am I bitter about my experience in straight? Yes!

I am the Sr. UNIX administrator for a mid-cap corporation. I control around 60 AIX, solaris and NT servers the lragest having 14GB of RAM and 1TB of storage space. I love my geeky job and I am HUNGRY to advance in my chosen career path. To say I am driven is an understatement. I will be starting to work on getting an MBA this spring and find myself excited by the long road. This has not happened in quite some time. I could eat nails and piss rust.

CL

[Anonymous]

I think that success after straight depends totally on the person. I am a survivior of St. Pete, along with a brother who is 1 year older. My oldest brother is a survivor of the Seed. (Nice parents huh?) My two brothers have had nothing but heartache and disapiontment since thier adulthood, they have had failed marriages, suicide attempts and have both been institutionalized since. I am ok, life has been good to me. Or maybe I have been good to myself. It is strange to think that the three of us have had the same parents and the same therapy (for lack of better word) and we have turned out so diffrently. The brother that I was in Straight with, I do not speak to, we can never rebuild the relationship that the staff at Straight worked so hard to destroy. My oldest brother (Seed survivor) is living with me right now, after a failed suicide attempt, this is the first time we have spoken in ten years. I think what I am trying to say is that people from Straight have both done good and bad, just as on can say about thier graduating high school class. I am posting as anonymous because I have worked very hard to get away from straight, most people know my family and we have been used as examples for both sides of the debate. I wish it all never happened, but if it did not would i be were i am today?

[the other anonymous]

"Now, if you read my post again, you will note that PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a major part of success. I said you have to work the grant thing. Same with social services. MEDICAID pays for every single thing you could get. Better than private insurance. If someone is UNABLE to fill out the form, someone will fill it out for them. Financial aid at college is one form sent to fed. Everything else is right on campus."

Oh, big fat whatever, Tampa.  You obviously have not been there.  There was no MEDICAID for me.  (Though there would have been if I had been PREGNANT).  And I was sick and needed to just be able to deal with my health problems and not have to avoid the payment window and get threatening bills in the mail every month, and be able to get the right kind of tests and maybe the more expensive medication.  And to rest in bed for a week or two at least instead of freezing and working like a dog.  A couple years later, I finally get a real diagnosis and the medicine is very expensive.

And school takes way more than those grants or whatever.  It helps to not be sick in the first place, and not be exhausted all the time from being freezing cold.  

So BIG FAT WHATEVER.

I really should not get mad when people don't get it.  I should just feel sorry for them because it could easily enough happen to them too.  All it takes is a slow chronic illness or one catastrophe.

And the thing is, the thing that you don't get because you don't know me, I DID NOT WANT HANDOUTS.  Here's what I got when I was poor: free food from a food pantry charity that was just canned peas and breakfast cereals and pasta and rice, and it was counted, so I only got maybe a weeks worth of edible stuff that way -- the stuff you shove to the back of your cabinets and forget about.  It helped, but it was not the whole healthy foods I desperately needed at the time.  I got maybe four months worth of food stamps.  I got $150 from a charity one time to pay PART of my rent.  I got an untrained "counselor" to talk to me for free.  This person suggested to me that I could get on disability because I obviously had PTSD (crying all the time, etc.).  But I totally did not want to do that.  I was not helpless at all, and I wasn't going to live as if I was.

All I am saying is that people do get down and out, and somehow, in a civil society in one of the richest countries in the world, where Hollywood blows up mansions and fifty-thousand dollar cars for entertainment, there ought to be a helping hand to get a person back up again.  Not to LIVE on handouts, not at all, only to help improve things so they don't die a slow and lonely death.

"What seperates the engineers, doctors, RNs, lawyers and web designers among us from those who are bitter?"
AN EDUCATION

[Tampa survivor]

"Oh, big fat whatever, Tampa. You obviously have not been there."

Halfway through my college program  my X dropped medical on our kids....I got medicaid for them but not me.  Been there... I lived without insurance for 2 years.  I know what its like to get well without insurance.  It cost me 200 bucks to beat a nasty strep throat infection. An office visit and a course of Biaxin can be a tricky thing to pay for as a broke student dad.

 "All it takes is a slow chronic illness or one catastrophe."
My oldest was diagnosed with a degenrative orthopedic problem during this time.  Expensive braces, orthotic shoes, surgeons and specialists, paid for when I couldn't.
I AGREE that medical care should be available to all.  I just don't want to end up like Canada and europe where a 3 month wait for an MRI is standard and the cost overall is HIGHER than here.  Profit is WHY we have the most innovative equipment and medicine in the world.  
A massive readjustment to the way we do medical care and compensation is needed.  It is a VERY complex situation. I deal with it often as an RN working in an urban trauma center.
Glad to see you finally got proper treatment. Thanks for posting
Bill

[Majiktrvls]

Tampa Survivor posed the question:

"What seperates the Engineers, doctors, RN's, lawyers and Web Designers from those among us who are bitter?"

Well, in my opinion.........

Education seperates the above mentioned professions from the poverty or low income level, but it does not guarantee that immunity from bitterness will be granted along with the diploma.  Bitterness comes from within. It is a state of mind. No matter how well educated or non-educated an individual may be, NO matter how much money an individual earns or does not earn, people have the choice to live in bitterness, or to move away from it and become accepting of their own lives and destinations.  

[ This Message was edited by: Majiktrvls on 2002-11-16 08:16 ]

[Hamiltonf]

You've obviously been misinformed about the Canadian system, which may be in crisis but nevertheless does not see a substantial portion of the population without ANY medical care at all as is the case with our hysterical friends to the south. But then, you should see the movie  "Bowling for Columbine" where your own Michael Moore asks questions about why so many people are being killed in the US.  Again you lock up poorer people, especially in Jeb Bush's Florida .  Something approaching 7 times the incarceration rate of Canada where we are more inclined to care for each other, (and our neighbours by the hundreds when they got stranded on Sept 11th, 2001) And you Yanks wonder why the rest of the world hates you! I would have thought it was bloody obvious.  Straight inc. is just one of the reasons.         So go ahead with your war against everything.  Many Canadians and a growing number of informed Americans don't want to be a part of it.

[Anonymous]

that,s why canadian docs keep immagrating to the u.s. right?  just because you are stuck in a shithole country with no culture of its own, a socialist government and a piss poor economy you shouldn't blame it on us. fuckface. we provide your defense and buy all the commodities you grub out of the ground up there and don't forget it or think you could do without it for one second. asshole.

[Tampa survivor]

Worked with a canadian rn recently.
She sure likes working in bush's florida.

she gets her medical stuff done here.
Bill