Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

My point with the Jesus anaology was that HE does not ask anything of us that HE himself has not already experienced.

I think Isabelle and Sue should experience the product they are 'selling' to parents firsthand,  BEFORE SELLING IT!!

Christ suffered at the hands of HIS own people for greed.  My Michelle died at the hands of her own people for greed.  Through my experience in HOW Michelle died, I received my own personal witness of what our Savior Jesus Christ suffered.  

I know in my heart that HE would not approve of what is happening to children in these programs.

Please do not use the name of my Lord and Savior in vain.

Promoting yourself again?  

How is the former owner of the program my daughter Michelle died in doing?  Does she have her own website now too?  Is she still referring children to programs for a fee?  Are you referring children to programs?  If so, what programs?  Do you receive a referral fee?  If so, how much PER CHILD, OR PROGRAM?  Is this something you would be willing to disclose in your Press Release?

I just returned from Girls Camp.  I was called to be Camp Director over 8 girls.  We had a great time.  Plenty to eat and drink.  In fact, they reminded us constantly to drink plenty of water.  Although we had ALL the water we wanted to drink, two girls did get a little dehydrated.  Common sense is to drink plenty of water when out in the sun doing any kind of activity.

I believe that because of my experience with my older children having gone to our Church Girls Camp that I was easily duped by the woman who 'sold' me the Summit Quest Program for my daughter Michelle.  Never in a million years would I have thought that people of my own faith would be involved in punitive, hitlarian programs.  These programs are completely opposite to what I just experienced at Girls Camp.  

I found pictures of Michelle and her sister Christina in the Zions Camp Scrapbooks of years past.  I think Michelle was easily duped as well because of her positive experience at our Church Girls Camp.

It's not necessary to be harsh and cruel to children in an effort to see change come about.  It's not necessary to lie to, kidnap, and send them away as if they were the sole problem within a troubled family.  

I want ALL readers to know that SOME so-called Mormons are deceived into believing that what they are doing is in the best interest of the child and his or her family.  They are playing God with Heavenly Father's Children.  It is Satan who believes in forcing a person to do the right thing, NOT God!  Whenever you think of the Mormons behind these types of programs, please know that these people of my same faith are troubled children themselves.

Sincerely,

Catherine Sutton

I have been up against the controversy surrounding wilderness programs since my daughter, Michelle, died in one.

Wilderness programs are as good as the people selling them.  It's a Buyer Beware, lucrative Industry.  

There are those who will say a wilderness program saved their life.  And, there are those who will say a wilderness program tarnished their life.  It is my opinion the ones who had a good experience were "lucky."  There are NO laws in place to protect the children.  Well, I take it back, there are two federal laws that should protect children in wilderness programs, but they are not being enforced.  There is NO screening process in place.  The wilderness industry is known for being a one size fits all experience.  The industry has earned the reputation of accepting any child, and their parents money.  One has to ask themselves, "How much does it cost for lentils, beans, rice, oatmeal, raisins, etc."  Why are these programs so expensive?  The overhead is minimal.

I experienced firsthand what can go wrong within the wilderness experience.  I know what to look out for now.  It's too late for my daughter.  It's not too late for others.

Who are these people who are out in the middle of the desert with the children?  The counselor who was with my daughter filled out an application prior to employment.  For position desired, he put...."slave."  We later learned through our lawsuit discovery that the counselor who was 'sold' to us as a highly trained survival expert, was in fact an ex-felon.  

When a California, Court-Adjudicated Youth, died in the Vision Quest program, Arizona, I began looking into this industry as well.  I found the same fatal flaws existed in both privately owned lucrative industries.  The only difference between the two is, how the child is sent, and where the money comes from.

In the privately owned Court-Adjudicated Industry, we the tax payers, and the state the child resides in fund the program.  In the privately owned Wildernesss Program, insurance companies and the parents fund the program.

One has to ask, "how much do the counselors get paid to live out in the middle of the boonies for weeks on end with these children."  Vision Quest is known for advertising in local newspapers for their hired help.  I understand they pay their counselors minimum wage to travel with the wagon train.  One has to ask, "what kind of help is willing to work for minimum wage and live out in the boonies."  Vision Quest is known to have qualified teachers working with the youth.  But, the so-called counselors have been known to abuse the children.  

Where both entities fall short is with the level of expectation and quality of care.

All too often, transient, untrained, underqualified individuals are allowed to take children out into the desert for "treatment."  Who's watching the children?  Who's watching the industry?

The problem is, there is NO law to say what happened to these children is against the law.  It's legal child abuse in the name of help and therapy.  The wilderness/boot camp industry has earned the reputation that we are talking about on this thread.  I believe the industry should stand up and be measured by supporting Congressman George Miller with the passing of bill 1738, to "End Institutionalized Child Abuse."

Dear Sarah,

I have a Sarah too.

Your essay touched me deeply.  I could feel every word as I read about your wilderness experience.

I am so proud of you for having the courage to tell others about what happened to you.  Many children are crippled by what happened to them.  Hurt and anger are just a few of the emotions that are crippling. Truth is healing.  I still have hope that the children who suffered first-hand in these programs will get their chance to tell the world, "what happened to us wasn't therapeutic "treatment," it was abuse.  Legal abuse!  Many children come home suffering from traumatic stress disorder.  One of the important messages I have tried so hard to get across to this industry is that "pain upon pain" is never gain.  Desperate parents are preyed upon by the industry.  The "help" they "sell" the desperate parent can compact the problems the child is experiencing if the program is abusive.  

My daughter, Michelle, and her best friend Andrea, were in a wilderness program together.  Andrea was with Michelle on the trek when she collapsed and died.  Andrea came home much like you described in your essay.  She was stronger, in that the next time she ran away, she wasn't afraid to sleep in an open park.  Watching her Best Friend die before her eyes was an experience that would stay with her for life.  The program was so much into power and control that they wouldn't allow the survivors to attend Michelle's funeral.  I'm sure they were afraid that the survivors would tell their parents what was truly taking place out in the desert.

Andrea once told me that she still has dreams of driving a truck into the desert to rescue other children.  Andrea has gone on with her life.  She has children of her own now.  She named her first little girl after Michelle.  

My hope and dream is to see a Class-Action-Suit filed by children everywhere that will hold ALL these programs accountable for their so-called "help" and "treatment."

Can you share with us what program you were in?  Were you in the program in the year 2000?

Is the program still around?

I too agree with you.

Legislation does need to include the reporting of, accidents, injuries, molestation, rape and murder.  The next step is enforcing the law once it is in place.  This is no short term process.  I am still in shock that a law was not already in place that should have said, "what happened to your daughter Mrs. Sutton, was against the law."  Instead it was, "you picked the program."

I don't like being mean to people like Isabelle.  I just don't have much patience anymore for fence sitters when it comes to children suffering in these programs.  It's been sixteen years.  Little has changed.  I'm still here at my computer repeating myself.

We do all need to stick together on this.  No favorites in the fight for what is right.  

I asked CAICA to stand up and be measured by including Whitmore Academy to their Watch List.
This should also include the Referral Service that referred the program.  I don't feel this is too much of a "true" Child Advocate.  They are the voices of the parents of a child who suffered abuse, and or died in the hands of so-called experts.

I think I just broke one of my own standards of practice.  I shouldn't have spoken out about how I feel on an open forum this way.  When I read the thread here, I took a look on CAICA'S CORNER.  I felt somewhat violated.  Sorry to take up time and space for something that should have stayed a personal matter.

I did email Isabelle.